FAR 91.130 and the Definite Article

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...

Does ATC even *do* VFR hand-offs to a Class D tower from flight following?

Yes. When ever I fly to the Twin Cities MSP TRACON always coordinates
with Anoka County(ANE). My normal flightpath would take me about one
mile outside of Crystal's class D but I usually go inside it to see if
Approach says anything about it. They never do. They always tell me to
contact the tower 5-7 miles out, works real good in that area.

Getting close to the edge of Hartford's Class D, I tried to get the
controller's attention to ask for a frequency change, but the freq was
busy and I couldn't break in. Eventually, I found a hole and he
turned me over to HFD tower, but by that time I was deep in the CDAS.

I had (naively?) assumed he had coordinated with HFD, but apparantly
not. I got the "call me when you land" deal, and when I called, the
tower controller proceeded to rip me a new one on the phone.

We had this EXACT thing happen to us, flying into Class D Janesville (KJVL),
WI while utilizing Rockford Approach (KRFD) for VFR flight following.

I wrote about the incident here, and the conversation went on for weeks --
so don't expect a consensus view of this type of affair. It's the only time
Mary and I have felt the need to file a NASA report.

Now, when we fly into KJVL, we cut Rockford Approach off 15 miles out. When
coming into Class D (for DUMB) airspace, approach control has proven
themselves to be far more trouble than they're worth.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Gene Seibel wrote:

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it.

Then tell him what the rules are.

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.

Yeah, there was something odd going on all over the upper Midwest that day.

Usually, each approach control seamlessly hands us off on our frequent
flights to Wisconsin. This time, Cedar Rapids cut us off as we approached
the Mississippi (this NEVER, ever happens with CID), and we had to ask for a
hand-off to Chicago Center. He cheerfully (they are always great at CID)
did this, but then Chicago Center handed us off to Rockford -- who wouldn't
hand us off to Madison.

Then Madison cut us off without handing us off to Milwaukee. Very odd,
indeed -- it's usually a seamless thing between all but Milwaukee, who
apparently never accept hand-offs from anyone.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
oups.com...

I was approaching Rockford frome the north and apparently nicked the
very edge of Janeville Class D while talking to Rockford Approach the
whole time and Rockford jumped all over me about it. There is something
weird going on with those two.


The Rockford controller was in error. He was required to coordinate with
Janesville tower.


FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-16. SURFACE AREAS

a. Coordinate with the appropriate nonapproach control tower on an
individual aircraft basis before issuing a clearance which would require
flight within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility unless
otherwise specified in a letter of agreement.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7210.3, Letters of Agreement, Para 4-3-1.
14 CFR Section 91.127, Operating on or in the Vicinity of an Airport in
Class E Airspace.
P/CG Term- Surface Area.

b. Coordinate with the appropriate control tower for transit authorization
when you are providing radar traffic advisory service to an aircraft that
will enter another facility's airspace.

NOTE-
The pilot is not expected to obtain his/her own authorization through each
area when in contact with a radar facility.

c. Transfer communications to the appropriate facility, if required, prior
to operation within a surface area for which the tower has responsibility.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Radio Communications Transfer, Para 2-1-17.
FAAO 7110.65, Surface Area Restrictions, Para 3-1-11.
FAAO 7110.65, Application, Para 7-6-1.
14 CFR Section 91.129, Operations in Class D Airspace.

Roy Smith wrote:


I had (naively?) assumed he had coordinated with HFD, but apparantly
not. I got the "call me when you land" deal, and when I called, the
tower controller proceeded to rip me a new one on the phone. She
didn't seem interested that I was talking to BDL.

Was that YOU last week? G

I heard someone going around and around with the HFD "Ice Queen" about
mid-day, one day last week.

The conversation started with the usual "Is there an instructor on
board?", and ended with a call the tower after landing request. The a/c
I heard made an initial call to HFD from 2 miles northwest of the field.

Barry

In article ,
B a r r y wrote:

Roy Smith wrote:


I had (naively?) assumed he had coordinated with HFD, but apparantly
not. I got the "call me when you land" deal, and when I called, the
tower controller proceeded to rip me a new one on the phone. She
didn't seem interested that I was talking to BDL.

Was that YOU last week? G

No, this was a couple of months ago.

Roy Smith wrote:


I let the HFD tower controller vent (and mostly restricted my
responses to "Yes, Ma'am"), and nothing more came of it.

Why can't I ever have this happen to me? I would let her go on for a
few minutes like you did and then tear her a new one. I know the rules
and I will tell her what paragraph to go look at in the .65.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Why can't I ever have this happen to me? I would let her go on for a few
minutes like you did and then tear her a new one. I know the rules and I
will tell her what paragraph to go look at in the .65.


What rule would that be? What paragraph in the .65 requires a radar
facility to coordinate the arrival of a VFR aircraft to a tower in Class D
airspace?