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Eurofighter is turning into German nightmare



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 16th 03, 07:26 PM
Chad Irby
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Default Eurofighter is turning into German nightmare

In article ,
(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/englis...265466,00.html

"A Bottomless Pit"

Armaments: The Eurofighter is turning into a nightmare. According to a
report by the Federal Audit Office, the mega project will not only
cost five billion euros more than planned - it also suffers from
severe flaws.


snip

But the first Eurofighters, which are now being delivered
considerably behind schedule, are virtually useless.


But... but... people here keep telling me that the Eurofighter is really
inexpensive, nearly perfect, and everyone in Europe is going to buy them
all!

--


Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.
  #2  
Old September 16th 03, 07:40 PM
NEMO ME IMPUNE
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Default

At least, and by chance not by France


  #3  
Old September 16th 03, 08:29 PM
Ian Craig
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Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then ****
of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a
MMI nightmare!

"NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message
...
At least, and by chance not by France




  #4  
Old September 16th 03, 09:59 PM
ArVa
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"Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de
...
Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then

****
of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a
MMI nightmare!

"NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message
...
At least, and by chance not by France




Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the
Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter
line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family? What
about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most
successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful
partnerships and some I may have forgotten?...

See on http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.ne...r/history.html the
reasons of France's withdrawal from the project : "The F/EFA project called
for a STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) twin engine air superiority fighter
optimised for Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat but retaining a ground attack
capability. France however wanted a small lightweight system which may
operate from its aircraft carriers. In addition they wanted a guaranteed 50%
workshare and overall control of the project, these were of course
unacceptable terms to Britain and Germany".

As for the Rafale being a man to machine interface (I hope I get it right)
nightmare, on which facts do you base your statement? It might be right
(though I have never heard nor read anything stating such a thing) but I'd
sure like to know your sources.

I've seen the Rafale prototype in flight at the 89 Paris air show, three
years after the program was officialy launched (and it had already flown
over 400 times), when all the EFA stand had to offer to visitors was posters
and stickers. Not so bad for a country on its own, isn'it?

The only actual part in your post is about the Rafale being in limited servi
ce, with about ten commissioned planes. In case you don't know, we don't
exactly have the US DoD budget. Why don't you send us $100 000 000 so that
we could quicker buy a couple more?

ArVa


  #5  
Old September 16th 03, 10:03 PM
Ian Craig
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Default


"ArVa" wrote in message
...

"Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de
...
Only cos they did what they always do - join up, get the idea and then

****
of and make their own. Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its

a
MMI nightmare!

"NEMO ME IMPUNE" wrote in message
...
At least, and by chance not by France




Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the
Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter
line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family?

What
about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most
successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful
partnerships and some I may have forgotten?...

You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and probably
MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have.

See on http://www.eurofighter.starstreak.ne...r/history.html the
reasons of France's withdrawal from the project : "The F/EFA project

called
for a STOL (Short Take Off and Landing) twin engine air superiority

fighter
optimised for Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat but retaining a ground

attack
capability. France however wanted a small lightweight system which may
operate from its aircraft carriers. In addition they wanted a guaranteed

50%
workshare and overall control of the project, these were of course
unacceptable terms to Britain and Germany".

As for the Rafale being a man to machine interface (I hope I get it right)
nightmare, on which facts do you base your statement? It might be right
(though I have never heard nor read anything stating such a thing) but I'd
sure like to know your sources.

I've seen the Rafale prototype in flight at the 89 Paris air show, three
years after the program was officialy launched (and it had already flown
over 400 times), when all the EFA stand had to offer to visitors was

posters
and stickers. Not so bad for a country on its own, isn'it?

The only actual part in your post is about the Rafale being in limited

servi
ce, with about ten commissioned planes. In case you don't know, we don't
exactly have the US DoD budget. Why don't you send us $100 000 000 so that
we could quicker buy a couple more?

ArVa




  #6  
Old September 16th 03, 10:25 PM
ArVa
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Default

"Ian Craig" a écrit dans le message de
...


You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and

probably
MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have.



To paraphrase a former US president, it depends how you define success...

The Jaguar is in service in France, the United Kingdom, Ecuador, Nigeria,
India and Oman. The alphajet is in service in France, Germany, Belgium,
Cameroon, Egypt, Ivory Coast, Morocco, Nigeria, Portugal, Togo and Quatar.
And both still fly some 25 years later (probably not for a very long time
now concerning the jaguar).

I agree the Mig AT is not a commercial success yet but the financial aspect
is not the only one to take in consideration. I was refering to successful
*partnerships*, as this is what you say the French can't achieve...

ArVa



  #7  
Old September 17th 03, 01:37 AM
IanDTurner
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Default

Don't write off my Jags yet - don't forget the Indians are still building them

Ian
  #8  
Old September 17th 03, 09:05 AM
Urban Fredriksson
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Default

In article ,
Ian Craig wrote:

Granted Rafale is in (limited) service, but its a
MMI nightmare!


I think the autopilot interface seems like a pretty smart
solution, is the rest worse designed? Something in particular
you had in mind?
--
Urban Fredriksson
Military aviation: Swedish military aviation, the rec.aviation.military FAQ
http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/
Weblog http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/aviation/avblog.html
  #9  
Old September 17th 03, 09:30 AM
Anonymous
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Default


Ian Craig wrote in message ...

"ArVa" wrote in message
...
Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the
Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter
line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family?

What
about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most
successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful
partnerships and some I may have forgotten?...

You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and probably
MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have.


The SEPECAT Jaguar has been in service with both Frances' own air force and
the RAF in the UK for a long time.

I remember the name Alphajet, but not the aircraft.

Cheers
Graeme


  #10  
Old September 17th 03, 09:44 AM
Ian Craig
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Anonymous" wrote in message
...

Ian Craig wrote in message ...

"ArVa" wrote in message
...
Another gratuitous statement.... "Always"? What about the Concorde, the
Jaguar, the Alphajet, the Mig AT, the Tiger and the entire Eurocopter
line-up? What about Airbus? What about EADS? What about the ATR family?

What
about SNECMA working with GE to produce the CFM-56, one of the most
successful family of jet engine ever? What about all these successful
partnerships and some I may have forgotten?...

You'd have got me if you hadn'#t mentioned Jaguar and Alphjet, and

probably
MIG AT. They've not been that successful? The others have.


The SEPECAT Jaguar has been in service with both Frances' own air force

and
the RAF in the UK for a long time.

I remember the name Alphajet, but not the aircraft.

Cheers
Graeme


Yeah, but its not exactly a brilliant aircraft? The only reason its still
in service is because fo the recent engine upgrade(if you can call it that),
and the fact that the air planners don't believe its role can be performed
by anything else in the RAF.


 




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