Superior HK XM8 Kicks M4's Ass

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/6/2004 12:37 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote in message
...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up
with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex
and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

Ooh, I'm impressed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/6/2004 12:37 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote in message
...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up
with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex
and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , tw
writes
I've always wondered, what are the differences between the M1, the M1
Garand
and the M14?

M1 rifle was named the Garand: chambered for .30-06 and feeding from an
eight-shot charger.

Right-ho. That's the one with the full length stock, right?

M14 was very similar, but was chambered in 7.62mm NATO, used a
twenty-round box magazine, and in some versions had a full-auto
capability (little used and often deleted)


Also, there was the cal .30 carbine.

This is what has me confused I think - so there is the M1 Garand (which
never seemed to have a magazine - that tallies with Paul's description of
the 8 round charger) then there was a carbine which looked rather like my
old BSA Meteor air rifle with what looked like a 20 round box magazine. Were
these the same rifle but with different barrel length/stock length/magazine?
(M1 carbine and Garand)


Per TM9-1276:
M1 Carbine with wooden stock, semi-automatic.
M1A1 Same but folding metal stock.
M2 Carbine with selector for semi or full auto.
M3 Same but accepts sniper-scope. ( see TM5-9341)

Thanks for that

Now, for lethality you want a Martini-Henry

I believe we used to fire them in CCF, though they had been rechambered for
..22 instead. That was the underlever rifle we used to "slosh the fuzzie
wuzzies"* wasn't it? .45 calibre originally? That must have hurt...


*Although Corporal Jones would have you believe the cold steel was the
better option. They DO NOT like it up 'em.

In article , "tw" wrote:

This is what has me confused I think - so there is the M1 Garand (which
never seemed to have a magazine - that tallies with Paul's description of
the 8 round charger) then there was a carbine which looked rather like my
old BSA Meteor air rifle with what looked like a 20 round box magazine. Were
these the same rifle but with different barrel length/stock length/magazine?
(M1 carbine and Garand)

Scroll to the bottom of the page at this link and go from there-
http://www.fulton-armory.com/

"Bill" wrote in message
...
In article , "tw"
wrote:

This is what has me confused I think - so there is the M1 Garand (which
never seemed to have a magazine - that tallies with Paul's description of
the 8 round charger) then there was a carbine which looked rather like my
old BSA Meteor air rifle with what looked like a 20 round box magazine.
Were
these the same rifle but with different barrel length/stock
length/magazine?
(M1 carbine and Garand)

Scroll to the bottom of the page at this link and go from there-
http://www.fulton-armory.com/

Thanks Bill!

A well-armed milita being necessary for the safety of a free state, the
right of the people to bear and carry AK-47 shall not be infringed.

From: "tw"
Date: 7/6/2004 4:06 AM Central Daylight Time

This is what has me confused I think - so there is the M1 Garand (which
never seemed to have a magazine - that tallies with Paul's description of
the 8 round charger) then there was a carbine which looked rather like my
old BSA Meteor air rifle with what looked like a 20 round box magazine.

OK, it looks like a definition is needed here. The garand DOES have a magazine.
it is internal. Think of magazines as the part that holds the ammunition. Bolt
action rifles like the Remington 700 have internal magazines and lever actions
like use tubular magazines.

A clip, like the 8 round clip for the garand and stripper clips for M-14, M-1
carbine, M-16, SMLEs etc are used to LOAD magazines.

As an aside my garand is a very low, less than 500, serial number. I'm
collecting parts to restore it to its original gas trap system.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

In message , tw
writes
"Jim Knoyle" wrote in message
...
M1 rifle was named the Garand: chambered for .30-06 and feeding from an
eight-shot charger.

Right-ho. That's the one with the full length stock, right?

That's the one: long, hefty brute. Good kit, though.

Also, there was the cal .30 carbine.

This is what has me confused I think - so there is the M1 Garand (which
never seemed to have a magazine - that tallies with Paul's description of
the 8 round charger) then there was a carbine which looked rather like my
old BSA Meteor air rifle with what looked like a 20 round box magazine. Were
these the same rifle but with different barrel length/stock length/magazine?
(M1 carbine and Garand)

No. The M1 Carbine was designed as a smaller, lighter weapon for troops
that didn't need a full-on rifle but if they *did* have to fight, they
needed something more effective than a pistol. (Truck drivers, mortar
teams, bakers, et cetera). So it was designed around a lower-powered
round that could reach out further than a pistol or SMG, but could still
be fired from a light and handy weapon.

To expand on Jim's listing of the M1 Carbine family, a folding-stocked
version was provided for airborne troops (the M1A1 Carbine), and later
the weapon was modified to fire full-auto (the M2 Carbine) which also
produced a 30-round magazine - the original M1 had a shorter 15-round
mag, though of course either would fit any mark. There was also a M3
designed for use with an early IR sight.


The concept's returned in the form of the "Personal Defence Weapon" such
as the H&K MP-7 or the FN P90, interestingly.

Per TM9-1276:
M1 Carbine with wooden stock, semi-automatic.
M1A1 Same but folding metal stock.
M2 Carbine with selector for semi or full auto.
M3 Same but accepts sniper-scope. ( see TM5-9341)

Thanks for that

Don't forget the M1 SMG, which was a much-simplified Thompson The US
military has a respectable selection of M1s...

I believe we used to fire them in CCF, though they had been rechambered for
.22 instead. That was the underlever rifle we used to "slosh the fuzzie
wuzzies"* wasn't it? .45 calibre originally? That must have hurt...

Zulu
"If it's a miracle, Sergeant-Major, it's a .45 short-chamber Boxer-Henry
miracle."
"And a bayonet, sir. With some guts behind it."
/Zulu

*Although Corporal Jones would have you believe the cold steel was the
better option. They DO NOT like it up 'em.

"Don't panic! Don't panic!"

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk