Are "Popups" A Hassle?

Newps wrote:
: That's what I was saying. Although it is pretty sad that the nationwide
: system cannot keep everything together in a unified way. It's not that it's that much
: data... just that the system is so old that it cannot handle it. If a couple
: megabytes of memory in a GPS can handle every APT, VOR, ADF, INT for all of north
: america, regular computers shouldn't have trouble.

: You don't know what you're asking for. A few MB of computer memory is
: not the issue. If you take off VFR and fly from Miami to Seattle you
: want you're IFR clearance to be ready at each controllers position along
: the way. Do you have any idea how many IFR flightplans never get used
: in the course of an average day?

I wasn't actually referring to flight plans... those are dynamic data and not
everyone needs to know about it. Also, they're well-defined so shuttling them to the
appropriate facility is relatively straight-forward. I'm talking about navaids such.
I think one should be able to file a cross-country flight plan, starting at an airport
or perhaps a nearby point, and file with the endpoint being the IAF designator at the
destination airport. There may be something subtle about why one wouldn't
necessarily want to have a clearance to an IAF designator, but it's better than the
airport. At least the IAF has a procedure for arriving at an airport... flying over
the top at MEA doesn't.

If I were to try that, chances are they computers won't have any idea the
designator for the destination airport. THAT's what seems silly to me.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

"John Clonts" wrote in message
oups.com...

Shouldn't he have some way of getting it though? (well, E.g. 30
minutes down the road rather than 2 hours) ?

Here's my specific example. I file IFR flight plan from Temple TPL to
San Antonio SAT. I take off VFR and head toward SAT. I'm in Gray
approach control's airspace when I take off, but 20 minutes later I'm
no longer in Gray's airspace. I decide I'd like to get my IFR
clearance so I call Houston Center. Should ZHU have a strip on me?


The first Center sector should have a strip.



And if not, can they somehow pull it up, to give me a clearance using
that flight plan info?


Any facility hosted by the originating Center's FDP computer can pull it up.
Any Houston Center sector can pull it up and modify it. Only Gray approach
and the first Center sector will have control and be able to modify the
flight plan without overriding that restriction.

So, as the original poster, what did YOU mean by "popup"?

A) You filed an IFR flight plan but departed VFR and then, in flight,
contacted ATC to activate your flight plan

or

B) You filed no flight plan prior to takeoff. You departed VFR and
then, in flight, contacted ATC requesting an IFR clearance.

--
Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

If you cancel upon reaching VFR conditions you haven't operated VFR-on-top,
so why do you find that a "to VFR on top" clearance is easier?

Excellent question, and I would like to know the answer. If I ask for
an IFR clearance to the next way point just to pop up, I just get asked
what airport my destination is and then told it will take a while to
coordinate. If I ask for a clearance to VFR on top to the next way
point, the clearance comes right out. So, I agree, why is it different?

-Robert

In article .net,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

What am I missing? I am eager to learn how the current system works.


What do you want to know?

Since you asked...

1. What hardware does the current system run on? What operating system
does it use? Who wrote the software? What language was it written in?
How is flight plan data stored? Is it on hard disks? In a RDBMS? Flat
files?

2. How many flight plans per day does the current system handle?

3. How sophisticated is the current system in terms of auto-routing and
capacity management? Can it figure out that there are, e.g. too many
planes headed for a particular navaid at a particular altitude and route
new traffic some other way?

4. What actually happens when I'm waiting for my IFR release? Is the
computer involved, or is it just the controllers at that point?

rg

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 10:55:40 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"Nathan Young" wrote in message


Upon initial contact from the aircraft, the controller, should be able
to key the N-number into a database and see if there is a flightplan
available. In this manner, each controller would have access to each
flightplan, but only as they need it.


Only as they need it? How does the computer know what controller needs
access to the flight plan at any moment?

It would not have to know that, it is a reply/request based system.
The controller (client) would type in an N-number (the request), and
the server replies with flightplans on file for that N-number.

Security and redudancy issues aside, I could have something like this
running on SQL and webconfigured in less than a week.

But those are rather important issues.

Yes, they are. My point was not to replace the current ATC system
with something I hack together in 1 week.

What am I missing? I am eager to learn how the current system works.
What do you want to know?

I know so little about the current system, that I do not know where to
begin. Do you have a link to documents or websites which would
explain how FSS and ATC enter, share, and track flightplans - ideally
in a few pages, not a 400page technical document?

However, I will start with a few questions:

1. If I file an IFR with 1800WXBrief, what happens to that
information? Does it go to a nationwide database? From discussion
the in this thread, I gather it only is sent to controllers
responsible for the departure airport, or perhaps controllers for
nearby airspaces.

2. How does ATC communicate with adjacent Center/Approach facilities?
Is this a leased phone line arrangement? Do you dial a number or just
pick up the appropriate phone for each location?

3. When a facility hands off to another facility how does the info on
the strip get from the first controller to the 2nd?

If any Chicago area controllers are lurking and are interested in
providing a tour to your facility - feel free to email.

Nathan

B

B

Ron Garret wrote:


1. What hardware does the current system run on?

Propietary. Built just for the FAA.


What operating system
does it use?

Same.




2. How many flight plans per day does the current system handle?

Millions.



4. What actually happens when I'm waiting for my IFR release? Is the
computer involved, or is it just the controllers at that point?

Just the controllers.

Newps writes:
Ron Garret wrote:

1. What hardware does the current system run on?

Propietary. Built just for the FAA.

What operating system does it use?

Same.

2. How many flight plans per day does the current system handle?

Millions.

Are you certain about that? It sounds high by several orders
of magnitude. Every airplane in the world would have to make
about a hundred flights per day to get to a million flight
plans per day.

4. What actually happens when I'm waiting for my IFR release? Is the
computer involved, or is it just the controllers at that point?

Just the controllers.