Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort

A couple of weeks ago, at a meeting of airtanker pilot in Reno, Walt Stewart
was a guest speaker.
He was a pilot on B-24, and his bombs were actually the first to hit the
refinery. "Utah Man" was the name of his B-24 and there was a documentary
video made about it a while back.

He talked about how on the way there, his navigator realized that the
formation
had turned about 40 miles too early, using the wrong railroad for point to
start the turn.

They were 2nd in their particular group in the formation, and they were
completely sure that turn that was made was wrong, but was unable to
question
it on the radio, due to radio silence.

Shortly afterward, the #1 plane in their group turned back out of formation,
and headed towards the right target, which they were happy about, because
they
knew it wasnt just them that knew a navigational error had been made.

He did stress how gutsy it was though, to just turn the particular group out
of
the formation like that, and its a gamble that if you are correct, you are a
hero, and if you are wrong, off to Ft Leavenworth you go.



Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter




I meant to say it was Ploesti I was talking about...


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: 362436 (Ron)
Date: 2/11/04 5:57 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

A couple of weeks ago, at a meeting of airtanker pilot in Reno, Walt
Stewart
was a guest speaker.
He was a pilot on B-24, and his bombs were actually the first to hit the
refinery. "Utah Man" was the name of his B-24 and there was a documentary
video made about it a while back.

He talked about how on the way there, his navigator realized that the
formation
had turned about 40 miles too early, using the wrong railroad for point to
start the turn.

They were 2nd in their particular group in the formation, and they were
completely sure that turn that was made was wrong, but was unable to
question
it on the radio, due to radio silence.

Shortly afterward, the #1 plane in their group turned back out of
formation,
and headed towards the right target, which they were happy about, because
they
knew it wasnt just them that knew a navigational error had been made.

He did stress how gutsy it was though, to just turn the particular group
out
of
the formation like that, and its a gamble that if you are correct, you are
a
hero, and if you are wrong, off to Ft Leavenworth you go.



Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter




I meant to say it was Ploesti I was talking about...


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter


Never mention Ploesti before bedtime. (Aaaargh)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: "M. J. Powell"
landed

snip

Art, I would like to ask some stupid questions. Why keep radio silence
then? If someone had put a quick question to the lead a/c what would
have been lost? Your radio frequencies were changed for each mission? It
would have been amazing if the enemy heard the transmissions. If he had,
what would he have gained? There wouldn't have been time to DF you. And
he knew where you were anyway.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


Of course they knew we were there. They were shooting at us. And every one of
us thought just that. But we can't have a situation where radio silence must be
kept unless someone thinks other wise. In that case everyone would be blabbing
over the radio all the damn time. So the rule is trict and allows for no
exceptions. Radio silence. Always radio silence. No exceptions. No matter
what. It is the way we were trained. and that is how we flew our missions. For
better or for worse.

Weeelll......I hate to criticise, but surely real emergencies can take
priority? The formation captain (?) can close down any chatter, as on an
intercom.

To lose a couple of planes and crews for want of a short comment, seems
a very high price to pay for prohibiting something that serves a useful
purpose.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: "M. J. Powell"
Date: 2/11/04 7:54 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: "M. J. Powell"
landed

snip

Art, I would like to ask some stupid questions. Why keep radio silence
then? If someone had put a quick question to the lead a/c what would
have been lost? Your radio frequencies were changed for each mission? It
would have been amazing if the enemy heard the transmissions. If he had,
what would he have gained? There wouldn't have been time to DF you. And
he knew where you were anyway.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


Of course they knew we were there. They were shooting at us. And every one
of
us thought just that. But we can't have a situation where radio silence must
be
kept unless someone thinks other wise. In that case everyone would be
blabbing
over the radio all the damn time. So the rule is trict and allows for no
exceptions. Radio silence. Always radio silence. No exceptions. No matter
what. It is the way we were trained. and that is how we flew our missions.
For
better or for worse.

Weeelll......I hate to criticise, but surely real emergencies can take
priority? The formation captain (?) can close down any chatter, as on an
intercom.

To lose a couple of planes and crews for want of a short comment, seems
a very high price to pay for prohibiting something that serves a useful
purpose.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


I agree. But Ike thought otherwise. (sigh)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: "M. J. Powell"
Date: 2/11/04 7:54 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: Radio Silence and Death over Frankfort
From: "M. J. Powell"
landed

snip

Art, I would like to ask some stupid questions. Why keep radio silence
then? If someone had put a quick question to the lead a/c what would
have been lost? Your radio frequencies were changed for each mission? It
would have been amazing if the enemy heard the transmissions. If he had,
what would he have gained? There wouldn't have been time to DF you. And
he knew where you were anyway.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


Of course they knew we were there. They were shooting at us. And every one
of
us thought just that. But we can't have a situation where radio silence must
be
kept unless someone thinks other wise. In that case everyone would be
blabbing
over the radio all the damn time. So the rule is trict and allows for no
exceptions. Radio silence. Always radio silence. No exceptions. No matter
what. It is the way we were trained. and that is how we flew our missions.
For
better or for worse.

Weeelll......I hate to criticise, but surely real emergencies can take
priority? The formation captain (?) can close down any chatter, as on an
intercom.

To lose a couple of planes and crews for want of a short comment, seems
a very high price to pay for prohibiting something that serves a useful
purpose.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell


I agree. But Ike thought otherwise. (sigh)

I wonder who his Chief Signals Officer was?

Mike
--
M.J.Powell