Jep p or NACO Charts?

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:02:42 -0500, Ron Natalie
wrote:

wrote:



Maybe, but the Class II notams are available to anybody doing a DUATS
briefing, for free and more current (and again, no updating pages)

They lose the pictures for the few that contain them.

And if you use a FSS there's no guarantee you'll get them.


Pictures?

We don't need no steenking pictures.

Roy Smith wrote in
:

Judah wrote:

Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far
superior to the NACO charts.

Excitedly? Gee, I wonder who that might have been :-)

Hahaha!

I used to use Jepp, but switched to NOS/NACO/whatever a while back. On
the "Jepp is better" side of the story:

Better cartography, better printing, better paper.

That was a big one for Larry, and the one big benefit that I considered.


The Jepp 7-ring binder is a lot more convenient to use than what NOS
does; it's a lot simplier to pull an individual plate out of the binder
to clip on a kneeboard or whatever.

While I was doing my IFR training last year, I went to Staples and picked
up a box of free-standing Binder Rings (like the rings that go inside a 3-
ring binder, without the binder) for about $2. Now, when I get my 2
subscribed plate books every two months, I take the rings out of the old
one, punch them through the new one, and I have an instant 3 ring top
binder without the big bulky cover. I don't even have to take off the
plastic until I am going to use it, and if I need to flip to a particular
chart, I can just flip the pages over themselves quickly and easily and set
it on my lap. Works really well.

The only negative side to this is that it's slightly more effort if I want
to yank them out and put them on a yoke clip. But since the club doesn't
have them (I bought one separately and used it for a while, actually) it's
not that big a deal to set it on my lap...


Jepp has a better notam system. If there's a notam published for a
while, Jepp will usually produce a new plate with the new info right on
the plate. NOS makes you keep up with their "change notices" booklet,
etc.

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Actually, as I recall from my cursory and
limited observation way back when, the Jepp books are organized slightly
more conveniently - related info is all together and nearby the main plate.

You look way cool hanging around the FBO with a Jepp binder.
Especially if it's the real leather one, not the cheap immitation kind
I used to carry around. Extra coolness points if it's old and
battered.

Yep... Larry's Jepp binder is definitely worn out and cool looking. I am
thinking about hitting some garage sales to see if I can find an old
leatherbound Classic Book or something that I can buy for 50 cents, rip the
covers off, punch 3 holes and the top, and make my binding solution look as
cool and authentic. But it's just not worth the effort.


If you fly for an airline, Jepp makes up special subscription packs
just for you, with just the routes you fly and internal ops stuff
printed on the same 7-hole paper.

Doesn't apply to me, so just not justifiable.


On the "NOS is better" side:

Cheaper.

You ain't kidding! Jepp seems to cost about 3x NOS!

You don't have to file revisions. Every 8 weeks, just get a new book
and toss the old one. Filing revisions gets old fast. Running an
end-of-year checklist to make sure you haven't lost any pages gets
really old, really fast.

That's a big plus. Amazing that the Jepp stuff is triple the price for what
I am guessing is about 20% of the paper and postage!

NOS is available anywhere. Every dinky pilot shop in every dinky
airport will stock NOS plates. It's very rare to find anyplace that
stocks Jepp. So, if you travel out of your normal area and use Jepp,
you need to plan ahead and order what you need. With NOS you can just
stop by the FBO and pick up a new book.

That's a big one. Before I got my IFR rating, I flew with a guy from HPN to
Little Rock, AR in his Bonanza (A35). He had a briefcase full of Jepp
plates with him, but during one of the stops he needed to pick up a Low-
Altitude Airway chart. Of course, they only had NOS, and he was annoyed. It
took him a minute or two extra to find stuff and look it up and all. But
the message that I got was that if everyone has the NOS charts, just use
them and be comfortable with them, because one day you may have to depend
on them...

You can download NOS-format PDF's from the web now.

That's a nice big plus - if I know I'm going somewhere, and I don't want to
buy the whole book, I can download a handful of PDFs for my destination
area and I'm set. Of course, I would have to punch the holes myself to fit
in my fancy shmancy 3 ring leather binder!

The military guys all use NOS and they manage to look cool carrying
their NOS books around with them. Must be the nomex flight suits that
really complete the look, I guess.

I'll have to buy a flight suit.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

On the "NOS is better" side:

Cheaper.

You don't have to file revisions. Every 8 weeks, just get a new book
and toss the old one. Filing revisions gets old fast. Running an
end-of-year checklist to make sure you haven't lost any pages gets
really old, really fast.

Roy: This is why I switched to the Express packs. NO 8 week updates or end
of year checklists, just every 56 days throw out the old and insert the new
just like NOS. It costs a little extra but it saves me time and I would
rather be flying than updating Jepp plates.

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In article , SFM wrote:
Roy: This is why I switched to the Express packs. NO 8 week updates or end
of year checklists, just every 56 days throw out the old and insert the new
just like NOS. It costs a little extra but it saves me time and I would
rather be flying than updating Jepp plates.

Yes, you're right about that. In fact, I did the Express Pack thing
for a while. It's a reasonable compromise.

In article , SFM wrote:
"Roy Smith" wrote in message
Roy: This is why I switched to the Express packs. NO 8 week updates or end
of year checklists, just every 56 days throw out the old and insert the new

You still get updates. I've gotten two envelopes for the same subscription
in the same day. Also, they don't replace some of the sheets (like the
fold out maps) so you have to fish them out of the old stack. Even when
they do re-print them they are packed separately and you have to cut
them in. Even though they replace "everything" every 56 days you still
can't just pull the plastic off and stick the pile into a binder. For
example, all of the state cover pages are at the front, not with the
states. The pile breaks into 5-10 sections (states, various kinds of
notams) and if you want the dividers in the right place you still have
to find all of those breaks. Also, certain sections (like the intro
material) are only replaced every other update now.

And that's why I'm not renewing.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

Been using NOS charts for years.

Saved many dollars, got many good laughs when I went flying as the
Jepp guys spent the afternoon heads down, updating their charts, and
then helped them out later when they couldn't locate a particular
chart becuse they had misfiled it.

And I never saw an approach that they could fly and I couldn't because
they had info on their charts that I didn't have on mine. (except for
an occasional military airfield chart, available only on DOD FLIPS if
you are an NOS user.)






On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:26:39 GMT, Judah wrote:

Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

In article ,
Judah wrote:

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

I had the Northwest Express Jepp subscription for a year. One day I was
at the best stocked local FBO buying NACO plates for California (not
covered by my Jepps) and realized that I'd happily pay for a full book
of charts for every approach I ever fly -- if only I didn't have to carry
them all around with me just in case!

Even during my IFR training, when I flew 60-something approaches, one
book at $4.25 per approach would have been about $250. And I doubt I'll
ever fly that many approaches in such quick succession again. Heck, if
we assume I could re-use plates it'd be a tiny fraction of that.

The two things I want to avoid are 1) lugging around a bunch of charts
of which 95% I'll definitely never use and 5% I'll probably never use,
and 2) paying a lot of money to have charts "just in case" because when
I finally know exactly what chart I'll need I'm in no position to buy it.

I keep waiting for an approach-plate-sized ebook that I can load up with
the DVD of plates. So far I can't find the right hardware...

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

In a previous article, (Ben Jackson) said:
I keep waiting for an approach-plate-sized ebook that I can load up with
the DVD of plates. So far I can't find the right hardware...

There are lots of them out there now, but they all cost $4000 and more.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
The people here have other bones to pick -- possibly including yours.
-- Mike Andrews

Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, (Ben Jackson) said:

I keep waiting for an approach-plate-sized ebook that I can load up with
the DVD of plates. So far I can't find the right hardware...


There are lots of them out there now, but they all cost $4000 and more.


Actually, they're coming down (especially if you don't give a hoot about
it being "flight approved").

Judah wrote:

Last week I finally got checked out in the club's Arrow.

During the training, the instructor noticed that I was using the NACO
charts and plates.

He uses the Jeppeson stuff and excitedly indicated that it is far superior
to the NACO charts. He gave me a few reasons, but when I looked at it for
myself, I just can't figure out how to justify spending all that extra
money for really not all that extra features.

So what do people here think? Are the Jepp charts worth shelling out the
extra money?

Not for me. I've used guv charts since I started instrument flying in
1993 and they work fine for me. And with the recent redesign, they are
even better.

Matt