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ClearVav vs. LXNav



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 30th 18, 04:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Gerry Simpson
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

New glider on the way. Would like objective opinions from pilots who have flown with both ClearNav and LXNav and spent enough time to make an honest, educated evaluation. Let me preface this with the information that I have flown with ClearNav since being an early adopter. Both appear to have advantages. Are there enough with LXVav (9000, 9070, 9050) to warrant going through the learning curve for a new system?
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  #2  
Old January 31st 18, 09:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

The bigger elephant in the room is the somewhat recent sale of the CN business. Will the CN products continue to see steady development? The additional baggage is that Cambridge folded some years ago and there is some shared lineage.

I know of several people who are opting for LX as they see a CN install being more risky when it comes to a future resell of the glider or if CN eventually closes up shop.

CN can undo this perception, but it’s going to take a regular effort to show a steady stream of updates and being receptive to ideas submitted by the users for future product enhancements that are rapidly pushed out in said updates.
  #3  
Old January 31st 18, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Roy B.
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

Hi Gerry:

I am currently using a ClearNav computer (but not the CN vario) in my US glider and an LX9000 in my South African glider, and have lots of hours and kilometers with both. So I can comment on them and the differences. A lot depends on your personal inclinations and desire/willingness to adjust, tinker and customize.

The LX units (the 8000, 9000 and 9070 are all using the same software system) are infinitely adjustable and customizable - almost to a maddening degree. You can adjust almost everything from volume of the voice warnings, type of vario audio lift & sink tones, width of lines on map, color saturation, etc. etc. etc. You can write your own checklists that will appear on the screen when you want. You can also do all of that on your own computer using the LX Styler program and then program the unit(or any other LX 8000 series unit) with the SD card. You can download your flights (or upload to OLC) by wireless transmission to a wireless internet connection or to your personal phone hotspot. The LX AHRS option (it's in the machine but you pay for the code to use it) is really cool but I doubt your could use it in the US ( we can do a little cloud flying in South Africa).

The ClearNav is a much simpler machine and more "set it and forget it" kind of device. It's much less adjustable/customizable - but to some that's a good thing. The ClearNav Area Task program (which scribes a blue arc line on where to turn to get back at minimum time)is pretty useful in competition.. The first time I used it I won the day. The CN uses a ribbon menu that pops up when needed and disappears when you don't want it.

The 2 machines use a different presentation approach. The LX9000 uses 3 different screens to show task, airports, and waypoints. Each of those screens can be customized as to what you want shown or not shown - and each pagecan have subsidiary pages if you want. The CN puts everything on one screen in a simpler presentation - so your task, waypoints, and airports are all right there on one screen. CN uses a "glide amoeba" to circle the airports that you can reach. LX lights up the ones you can reach with a green highlight. The CN screen can get a little crowded sometimes - but changing pages in the LX can be a pain sometimes, too. Both machines give you a current OLC optimzation score - LX does it in realtime while CN takes a few seconds to figure it out.

Task loading is easier/quicker with the LX - especially if your waypoint file is large. It sorts the file any number of different ways. CN customer support is super - if Gary can't fix it & return it overnight they give you a loaner unit. I have a non scientific sense that the LX is more of a power hog than the CN. You have to tell the LX whether you are using SLA or LiPe batteries. I don't think the CN cares.

Bottom line:if you like to adjust, customize and tinker with a computer and don't mind changing pages in flight you will like the LX units. If you want something more simple that is mostly set up for you already, and puts it all on one screen - you will like the ClearNav. For both units I recommend the stick grip controller.

Lastly - I suggest that you go to the convention in Reno, talk to the dealers and play with both units. I'd be happy to talk more with you there if you would like.
ROY

  #4  
Old February 1st 18, 03:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Springford
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav


As an LX dealer - I'll comment on a couple of the LX features as I have limited experience with ClearNav. To me the difference is the same as Windows vs Mac, some people just like one better than the other although they both do the same thing.

"glide amoeba" - the LX computers also have this feature, but I find that it overly clutters the screen so I don't use it. Instead, much like SeeYou Mobile the LX system colourizes the labels for landable points within glide.. Green label if you can get there with your current MacCready setting, yellow if you can get there at MC 0 and no colour if you can't get there. (all of this taking into account your pre-programmed reserve altitude)

AAT calculations - the LX has two features to help with AAT decisions. The first is a set of isospeed lines inside the AAT zone (lines of constant task speed) If you fly parallel to these lines you are not gaining extra speed, you need to fly perpendicular to them. This helps you decide which direction to fly inside the zone The second is an undertime/overtime colouring of the zone. There is a red section and a blue section inside the zone. If you turn while in the blue you will be undertime based on the currently estimated task speed. If you turn in the red area you will be overtime. If you turn at the dividing line between the two colours you will be "on time".
  #5  
Old February 1st 18, 07:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Thomas Van de Velde
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

Get an S100 and hook it up to an Android tablet with XCSoar over Bluetooth. No need to spend several thousands of dollars on sub-optimal software.


On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 6:07:50 PM UTC-8, Dave Springford wrote:
As an LX dealer - I'll comment on a couple of the LX features as I have limited experience with ClearNav. To me the difference is the same as Windows vs Mac, some people just like one better than the other although they both do the same thing.

"glide amoeba" - the LX computers also have this feature, but I find that it overly clutters the screen so I don't use it. Instead, much like SeeYou Mobile the LX system colourizes the labels for landable points within glide. Green label if you can get there with your current MacCready setting, yellow if you can get there at MC 0 and no colour if you can't get there. (all of this taking into account your pre-programmed reserve altitude)

AAT calculations - the LX has two features to help with AAT decisions. The first is a set of isospeed lines inside the AAT zone (lines of constant task speed) If you fly parallel to these lines you are not gaining extra speed, you need to fly perpendicular to them. This helps you decide which direction to fly inside the zone The second is an undertime/overtime colouring of the zone. There is a red section and a blue section inside the zone. If you turn while in the blue you will be undertime based on the currently estimated task speed. If you turn in the red area you will be overtime. If you turn at the dividing line between the two colours you will be "on time".


  #6  
Old February 1st 18, 12:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
joesimmers[_2_]
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

I am a big fan of the simplicity of the clearnav.

I work a lot so when I can finally take a day off to
go flying, I do not want to have to relearn a flight computer,
I believe the clearnav is the most simplistic instrument that
gives me all the info I need.

  #7  
Old February 1st 18, 03:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

For me, with an LX 9000, effectively having 3 glide computers in the one instrument is a very major plus point that I had not appreciated before I got it. I have one navigating the task, the airfield one normally set for the home airfeld but I may switch to other another airfield from the LX Nav database if appropriate in flight, and the waypoint navigation page I sometimes use as a "what if" or use it to navigate towards a waypoint that steers me to avoid airspace.

As for complexity, I have long established preferences about what information I want to see on a page and how I want it displayed so after a few "fun" hours using LX Styler at home I have a profile which for me is completely simple to use yet flexible when needed.
  #8  
Old February 1st 18, 04:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 7:11:39 AM UTC-8, Gerry Simpson wrote:
New glider on the way. Would like objective opinions from pilots who have flown with both ClearNav and LXNav and spent enough time to make an honest, educated evaluation. Let me preface this with the information that I have flown with ClearNav since being an early adopter. Both appear to have advantages. Are there enough with LXVav (9000, 9070, 9050) to warrant going through the learning curve for a new system?


One consideration is screen size. As eyes age, big is better. the LX9070 has a 7 inch screen.
  #9  
Old February 1st 18, 09:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

I have flown with both. My (DB) glider came with LX nav and I took it out and after 2 seasons put in a clearnav II with vario.

The LX is a much more expensive computer. The hardware, screen resolution, etc. is fancier. It's very impressive. As others have commented, it's infinitely customizable. And you have to infinitely customize it.

Why did I rip it out and sell at considerable loss? I found myself always confused. Yes, if one spends a few nights rereading and practicing, one can get the hang of the thing each spring. But I'm lazy and I found myself constantly forgetting how to do basic stuff. The CN is instantly self explanatory.

I found two big problems with the LX. The guidance for finishing a turn area task is very complex. Running off the end of a mountain at Minden nationals, I needed to know in the next 30 seconds whether to make the next transition or turn for home. I spent 30 seconds totally heads down ( ) on this task trying to guess when I'd get home. When the decision needed to be made I went. I ended up something like 15 minutes early, dooming my speed for the day. The clearnav ellipse and time to finish display just shows up automatically and does an amazingly good job.

I also hated the speed to fly vario. The sensitivity d noise / d lift is at least 5 times greater in speed mode than in vario mode, so it's always screaming up or down. You enter lift, it screams up, you turn... it switches to climb mode and you're only going 2 knots. I am pretty religious -- I want a speed to fly audio in cruise mode, which I use to listen to the air as I fly relatively constant speed. A netto leads to flying too slow, and a TE vario is always screaming down. After many emails to LX I couldn't get them to fix it (i.e. to see it my way). The STF audio is calibrated to horizontal knots, i.e. "you're flying 10 knots too slow" and thus has a different scale than the other audios. The STF audio should be vertical knots "the air is going up 2 knots faster than it should be for the speed you are currently flying." The CNV does that.

The CN thermal centerer is an unexpected bonus. It really works. I can usually do better mentally if I'm paying attention. But if I get distracted for a bit and lose the thermal, going the way it tells me to go works more often than not.

I prefer the amoeba to the colored airports. Among other things it quickly lets you know if you can make it over a pass, like in to truckee over lake tahoe. but this isn't that big a deal.

I buy instruments NOT to look at them or fuss with them. Turn the CN on, it shows what you want quickly, and look back outside with no fussing through screens

I call it 9000 numbers you don't need. If you want all those numbers, flight statistics, L/D to this and that, you want the 9000

Both excellent instruments however. Really just a question of matching the instrument with your philosophy.

John Cochrane
  #10  
Old February 1st 18, 10:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Default ClearVav vs. LXNav

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 3:26:36 PM UTC-5, John Cochrane wrote:

Why did I rip it out and sell at considerable loss? I found myself always confused. Yes, if one spends a few nights rereading and practicing, one can get the hang of the thing each spring. But I'm lazy and I found myself constantly forgetting how to do basic stuff. The CN is instantly self explanatory.


To echo John's comments, the design goal for the Clearnav was "single screen, set and forget." The ONLY control I ever use on the Clearnav display once I'm out on course is zoom in/out. Stone axe simple. Also, I LOVE the way the glide amoeba(e) are presented. The inner ring tells me what I can reach with my defined AGL margin; the outer ring tells me what hard things I'm going to run into. Very useful when trying to make transitions in ridge country for example.

I also agree that the LX9000 is cool and super feature-rich. I only have one actual flight with one plus about 30 minutes sitting on the ground with it. I wasn't comfortable that I understood how to make it work (but I've never been accused of being especially bright).

P3
 




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