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ASW-24



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 26th 05, 12:54 AM
Lee Rusconi
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Default ASW-24

I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks



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  #2  
Old May 26th 05, 01:37 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lee,
The ASW-24 is a great aircraft, but I'm sure you have discovered in
your research that the 24's original airfoil was discovered to not
perform as well as expected in rough air. There was a relatively
simple remedy which was to "blunt" the leading edge. Before worrying
about the winglets I'd check to ensure that this modification has been
done.
And to answer your question, if the avionics are top notch and the
winglets PROPERLY installed and the finish in very good condition, then
$45k sounds like a fair price in my opinion.
It's a beautiful aircraft.
Respectfully,

Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks


  #3  
Old May 26th 05, 02:09 AM
Udo Rumpf
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Posts: n/a
Default

In fact it is the other way around.
Is the winglets that is the key.
The "blunting", changing the first 10% of the airfoil in the outboard
section
of the wing was thought to improve the climb but it turns out to be a well
designed winglet that made the difference. The factory winglet did not
perform as well. Those in the know are changing back to the original airfoil
as
the cruise is improved but climb does not deteriorate.
It was not the airfoil but rather the small Reynolds numbers in the wing tip
region that caused the problem, which the winglet corrected.
The 24 is still very competitive indeed.
I do agree with the rest of your comments.
Regards
Udo

wrote in message
oups.com...
Lee,
The ASW-24 is a great aircraft, but I'm sure you have discovered in
your research that the 24's original airfoil was discovered to not
perform as well as expected in rough air. There was a relatively
simple remedy which was to "blunt" the leading edge. Before worrying
about the winglets I'd check to ensure that this modification has been
done.
And to answer your question, if the avionics are top notch and the
winglets PROPERLY installed and the finish in very good condition, then
$45k sounds like a fair price in my opinion.
It's a beautiful aircraft.
Respectfully,

Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks



  #4  
Old May 26th 05, 10:02 AM
J.A.M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I fly an ASW-24, original airfoil, and it climbs nicely, paired with
another -24B. Also climbs well with LS-3, DG-200, DG-400, Discus, PW-5 and
so on. I fly in Spain, so thermals are usually strong and turbulent. No
problem there.
I am in the belief that the leading edge thing is more a factory response to
gliding gossip, than an actual aerodinamic problem.

Great bird, great cockpit, rigging, handling, etc. You wouldn't regret
buying it.
Replace the electric ballast dump with a mechanic one. The electric takes
forever to dump.
escribió en el mensaje
oups.com...
Lee,
The ASW-24 is a great aircraft, but I'm sure you have discovered in
your research that the 24's original airfoil was discovered to not
perform as well as expected in rough air. There was a relatively
simple remedy which was to "blunt" the leading edge. Before worrying
about the winglets I'd check to ensure that this modification has been
done.
And to answer your question, if the avionics are top notch and the
winglets PROPERLY installed and the finish in very good condition, then
$45k sounds like a fair price in my opinion.
It's a beautiful aircraft.
Respectfully,

Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks




  #5  
Old May 26th 05, 01:34 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I slightly disagree with Udo. The best result, in my opinion, having
flown '24's in all the combinations, is the leading edge mod and
improved winglets together give the best total result.
I never saw any deterioration of glide with leading edge mod and did
see improvement in gust sensitivity.
He is very much correct that winglet is most important as it keps the
tip working and aileron effective down to a speed where overall drag on
the airfoil begins to rise due to separation.
'24 is a great glider, I'd still have it today if Gerhard had not made
a little bit better glider in the "28.
Good Luck UH

  #6  
Old May 26th 05, 01:55 PM
John Sinclair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As I recall, the ASW-24 had a climb problem until it
was discovered the ship must be flown a bit faster
while thermaling. Is this true and at what speed do
you thermal the ship?
JJ

At 02:00 26 May 2005, Udo Rumpf wrote:
In fact it is the other way around.
Is the winglets that is the key.
The 'blunting', changing the first 10% of the airfoil
in the outboard
section
of the wing was thought to improve the climb but it
turns out to be a well
designed winglet that made the difference. The factory
winglet did not
perform as well. Those in the know are changing back
to the original airfoil
as
the cruise is improved but climb does not deteriorate.
It was not the airfoil but rather the small Reynolds
numbers in the wing tip
region that caused the problem, which the winglet
corrected.
The 24 is still very competitive indeed.
I do agree with the rest of your comments.
Regards
Udo

wrote in message
roups.com...
Lee,
The ASW-24 is a great aircraft, but I'm sure you have
discovered in
your research that the 24's original airfoil was discovered
to not
perform as well as expected in rough air. There was
a relatively
simple remedy which was to 'blunt' the leading edge.
Before worrying
about the winglets I'd check to ensure that this modification
has been
done.
And to answer your question, if the avionics are top
notch and the
winglets PROPERLY installed and the finish in very
good condition, then
$45k sounds like a fair price in my opinion.
It's a beautiful aircraft.
Respectfully,

Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks







  #7  
Old May 26th 05, 03:49 PM
Udo Rumpf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

J.J.
Since I am a relative late comer to the ASW 24
and have flown it only with the B mod. and Nixon winglet
My target speed "at a 45deg". bank and empty at 7.3lb/sqft
is about 50kt.
Regards
Udo

"John Sinclair" wrote in message
...
As I recall, the ASW-24 had a climb problem until it
was discovered the ship must be flown a bit faster
while thermaling. Is this true and at what speed do
you thermal the ship?
JJ

At 02:00 26 May 2005, Udo Rumpf wrote:
In fact it is the other way around.
Is the winglets that is the key.
The 'blunting', changing the first 10% of the airfoil
in the outboard
section
of the wing was thought to improve the climb but it
turns out to be a well
designed winglet that made the difference. The factory
winglet did not
perform as well. Those in the know are changing back
to the original airfoil
as
the cruise is improved but climb does not deteriorate.
It was not the airfoil but rather the small Reynolds
numbers in the wing tip
region that caused the problem, which the winglet
corrected.
The 24 is still very competitive indeed.
I do agree with the rest of your comments.
Regards
Udo

wrote in message
groups.com...
Lee,
The ASW-24 is a great aircraft, but I'm sure you have
discovered in
your research that the 24's original airfoil was discovered
to not
perform as well as expected in rough air. There was
a relatively
simple remedy which was to 'blunt' the leading edge.
Before worrying
about the winglets I'd check to ensure that this modification
has been
done.
And to answer your question, if the avionics are top
notch and the
winglets PROPERLY installed and the finish in very
good condition, then
$45k sounds like a fair price in my opinion.
It's a beautiful aircraft.
Respectfully,

Lee Rusconi wrote:
I have an opportunity to buy a 1988 ASW-24 which is
in beautiful condition, good electronics and great
trailer. The glider is equipped with M&H winglets.
The asking price is $45,000 US. I would appreciate
any feedback regarding the winglets and/or the price.

Thanks







  #8  
Old May 26th 05, 08:23 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JJ,

Good winglets fix the climb "problem" (which wasn't much of a
problem--I flew mine sans winglets the first year and loved it). Hank
Nixon and I have a friendly ongoing debate over whether the modified
leading edge (the famous "B" mod) does anything beneficial. He did the
mod; I didn't. I think he's just keen to see me take a file to my
leading edge.

With Hank's latest winglets, my ship climbs with anything. I'd thought
until last year that I had to fly it a little faster; e.g., low 50s
(kts.) in moderate banks. But I discovered at New Castle that in
survival conditions, I could fly it just like a 1-26 and it climbs
great: i.e., slow it down until it's on the edge of buffet.

There may or may not be some benefit to the blunter "B" leading edge in
gusty thermals but I haven't noticed. I do agree with those who believe
that the debate over the airfoil, micro-turbulence, etc., was primarly
a very effective (obviously!) marketing campaign on the factory's part.
After all, how do you sell a brand new glider that doesn't seem to go
any better than the old model unless you can point to something that's
been "fixed"?

Chip Bearden
"JB" ASW-24 owner since 1992

John Sinclair wrote:
As I recall, the ASW-24 had a climb problem until it
was discovered the ship must be flown a bit faster
while thermaling. Is this true and at what speed do
you thermal the ship?
JJ


  #9  
Old May 27th 05, 09:07 AM
J.A.M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's true what you say. The first flights I tried to thermal at 80-85kph,
just as I had done on ASK-21, Astir, and Discus I previusly flew. Found it
harder to climb. I thermal now around 90-95kph and I find no problem. Just
had to be slightly more careful about speed. It climbs very well if you
respect the speed range.

"John Sinclair" escribió en el
mensaje ...
As I recall, the ASW-24 had a climb problem until it
was discovered the ship must be flown a bit faster
while thermaling. Is this true and at what speed do
you thermal the ship?
JJ



  #10  
Old May 27th 05, 12:08 PM
Udo Rumpf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of course it would be true, at 80km/k you would be flying to slow
if you tried to thermal.
This is minimum sink speed in level flight at 6.5 lb/sqft.
at 7.5 lb/sqft you would be approaching stall speed.

To recap the ASW24 does not have to be flown any faster then
other glider of its type. Two gliders you have mentioned have a much
lighter wingloading and the Discus and the ASW24 with 7.5 lb/sqft
will fly at about the same speed.

Now I know how misinformation gets started.

Regards
Udo


"J.A.M." wrote in message
...
It's true what you say. The first flights I tried to thermal at 80-85kph,
just as I had done on ASK-21, Astir, and Discus I previusly flew. Found it
harder to climb. I thermal now around 90-95kph and I find no problem. Just
had to be slightly more careful about speed. It climbs very well if you
respect the speed range.

"John Sinclair" escribis en el
mensaje ...
As I recall, the ASW-24 had a climb problem until it
was discovered the ship must be flown a bit faster
while thermaling. Is this true and at what speed do
you thermal the ship?
JJ




 




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