If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
OH-58 for Civilian use
Can anyone speak to the problems and challenges that I might encounter
in purchasing a OH-58A+ . I plan on using it for primarily for turbine training but was wondering if there were any income producing activities that could be done under the restricted designation. Thanks Peter |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Alan, I believe that you can apply for an Experimental rating that will permit
training use. I am interested in feedback on the reliability of these ships. Thanks Peter SuperCobra wrote: Peter, I plan on using it for primarily for turbine training I think I am correct when I say that you cannot use a 58 for training. You can, however; do forestry spraying in restricted category. There are other possibilities, but not too many. Alan |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
I believe that you can apply for an Experimental rating that will permit
training use Enlightened once again!! Alan |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Subject: OH-58 for Civilian use
I thought the military only gave/sold these aircraft to public safety agencies (Police, Sheriffs Dept. etc)? Gerard |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
They do, however they eventually become surplus to these users as well. They
can sell at their discretion only after a couple years ( they don't even have to be in use during this period) and can also trade for like value just like the feds do. Many S-64 Skycranes were abtained using the trade method direct from Feds to the private (commercial) owners. In fact a bunch are being released now (OH-58s) because they are sometimes quite old and newer units and brand new units are much easier to procure now that these agencys have proven their use. Many of these agencies are procuring state of art equippment. So tax payers are abliged. just an opinion mindya Jim "Micbloo" wrote in message ... Subject: OH-58 for Civilian use I thought the military only gave/sold these aircraft to public safety agencies (Police, Sheriffs Dept. etc)? Gerard |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
In the case of the military LOH OH-6A you can license it in the standard
catagorie and use it as you would use any H-500C or D by documenting all the components serial numbers and times. If the component is new but with out records you may be able to "half life" the component and still operate under the standard license. Or replace any componet not in compliance with the AWC. I have seen several of these used in turbine transition training ( not first hand but on the internet). This may or may not apply to the OH-58 but why not? The manufacturer may have significant leverage in this for liability reasons, not sure. You could still train yourself in it licensed Experimental or restricted, its under 12,000 lbs. just an opinon mindya Jim "pp" wrote in message ... Can anyone speak to the problems and challenges that I might encounter in purchasing a OH-58A+ . I plan on using it for primarily for turbine training but was wondering if there were any income producing activities that could be done under the restricted designation. Thanks Peter |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
They do, however they eventually become surplus to these users as well.
Thanks |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In article , "Jim"
wrote: They do, however they eventually become surplus to these users as well. They can sell at their discretion only after a couple years ( they don't even have to be in use during this period) and can also trade for like value just like the feds do. That depends on the transfer agreement. Many S-64 Skycranes were abtained using the trade method direct from Feds to the private (commercial) owners. The CH-54s (S-64s) were sold, not traded. There's no real analogy between the CH-54 and the OH-58, type certification was one of the original procurement requirements for the "crane, and all major components were overhauled in FAA approved facilities. -- Paul Baechler |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
I came across the following two items that shed some light on the ability to acquire
OH-58's and UH-1's. One deals with revised inspections and the other deals with who is authorised to certify them as Restricted Type. I have been told that you can apply to the local FSDO to get Expermental ratings as well. Price of these is anywhere from $135K to $250K depending on component times and refurbishing requirements. Peter ORDER: 8300.10 APPENDIX: 3 BULLETIN TYPE: Flight Standards Handbook Bulletin for Airworthiness (HBAW) BULLETIN NUMBER: HBAW 96-06A (Amended) BULLETIN TITLE: Inspection Planning Guide (IPG)for UH-1 and OH-58 A, A+ and C Series Helicopters, EFFECTIVE DATE: 3-17-97 ----------------------------------------------------------- 1. PURPOSE. This bulletin provides notification to Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) aviation safety inspectors (ASI) of the availability of Inspection Planning Guide (IPG)for military surplus UH-1 and OH-58 A, A+ and C, Series Helicopters. These IPG's respectively, dated March 26, 1996 for UH-1 series helicopters (except UH-1N models), and dated January 17,1997, for OH-58 A, A+, and C models, apply to helicopters being operated for public and civil use. 2. BACKGROUND. Individuals from Flight Standards, Aircraft Certification, Fort Worth Aircraft Evaluation Group (FTW-AEG), commercial helicopter operators, Bell Helicopter Textron, Allied-Signal, Allison Engine Company and other Government Agencies under the auspices of the Interagency Committee for Aviation Policy (ICAP), developed these IPG's, which now provide operators with an alternate inspection program choice which may be used in place of the military inspection program. These IPG's spell out requirements for various Inspections such as, Detail Inspections (#1, #2, & #3), Special Inspections, Periodic Inspections, and events related Conditional Inspections. 3. DISCUSSION. Military surplus helicopters are being released by the Department of Defense (DoD) for use by other government agencies. These helicopters are being operated by other government agencies for such uses as fire suppression, drug interdiction and other law enforcement purposes under "Public Use" operations. Commercial or private operators are also afforded the opportunity to acquire these helicopters through government sales and may possibly make application with the FAA for a Restricted Category Type Certification. A. Aircraft while under operational control of the DoD are inspected in accordance with various military inspection programs which are identified by pertinent military Technical Orders (TO), Technical Manuals (TM), or other Military Maintenance Manuals. Inspection procedures were varied and inconsistent due to the different mission requirements of each service branch (i.e., Army/Navy/Air Force). With the increasing placement of the UH-1 and OH-58 series helicopters into the public use and civil aviation market place, the military inspection programs did not provide for either flexibility or the standardization that is needed to meet civil regulation requirements. B. These IPG's will give guidance for a standardization baseline to be established for the development of an FAA- acceptable inspection program that will meet most user's needs and will also provide for easy review by the FAA inspector with surveillance responsibilities for these operators. Additional requirements beyond the IPG's guidelines could be included, such as inspection procedures for optional equipment, emergency equipment, or equipment installed for special purpose use. C. The Interagency Committee for Aviation Policy (ICAP) will make the IPG's available to the FAA and to any interested person or organization upon request. ICAP will also be the central point of contact for future recommended changes, additions, or deletions. This procedure will be coordinated through the Fort Worth Aircraft Evaluation Group (FTW-AEG) on an annual basis. Copies of the IPG's may be obtained by contacting: Mr. Mike Miles Aircraft Management Policy Division General Services Administration 18th & F Streets, NW, Room 1221A Washington, DC 20405 Phone: (202) 219-1356 FAX: (202) 501-2149 4. ACTION. FAA ASI's approving inspection programs and having responsibility for owners/operators of restricted category UH-1 or OH-58 series helicopters should make their operators, including Public Use operators, aware of the availability of these IPG's. 5. INQUIRIES. Questions concerning this bulletin may be directed to General Aviation and Commercial Branch, AFS-340, at (202) 267-7501. 6. LOCATION. The material covered in this bulletin will be incorporated in a future chapter of FAA Order 8300.10, Airworthiness Inspector's Handbook. /s/David E. Cann for Dennis H. Piotrowski Acting Manager, Aircraft Maintenance Div. ORDER: 8300.10 APPENDIX: 3 BULLETIN TYPE: Flight Standards Handbook Bulletin for Airworthiness (HBAW) BULLETIN NUMBER: HBAW 97-18 BULLETIN TITLE: Inappropriate Ratings for Repair Stations (Helicopter OH-58) EFFECTIVE DATE: 12-15-97 -------------------------------------------------------- 1. PURPOSE. This bulletin provides information to Principal Maintenance Inspectors (PMI) regarding the issuance of repair station ratings to perform maintenance and alterations on Bell OH-58 Helicopters. 2. BACKGROUND. It has come to the attention of the Aircraft Maintenance Division, AFS-300 that repair station Operations Specifications (OpSpecs) have been issued for the purpose of maintaining and altering Bell OH-58A and OH- 58C helicopters. The Bell OH-58 was built for use by the military, and with the exception of the first two helicopters, which were issued Type Certificates (TC), none of the other helicopters were issued a TC under the Bell name. A. The first two Bell TC'd OH-58's have been destroyed, consequently, there are no longer any TC'd Bell OH-58's in existence. B. Recently many of the surplus OH-58's have entered the market as public use aircraft. Two companies have applied for and received TC for the OH-58 and they are Garlick Helicopters, TC Number USR00006DE and Arrow Falcon Exporter, TC Number H22NM. These helicopters are eligible for and were issued a restricted category airworthiness certificate. 3. POLICY. Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 43, section 43.1 states in part that "This part prescribes rules governing the maintenance, preventative maintenance, rebuilding, and alterations of any aircraft having a U.S. airworthiness certificate." 14 CFR part 145, section 145.57(a) requires a repair station to perform maintenance in accordance with part 43. These two regulations in essence, prohibit the issuance of a repair station rating to return to service a non TC'd military or public use aircraft. 4. ACTION. Any Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) or International Field Office (IFO) that has issued a repair station OpSpecs with limited airframe ratings "Bell OH-58" shall take the necessary action to rescind those specifications. A repair station with such ratings could conceivably return to service under their rating an OH-58 that has never been issued an FAA TC. The appropriate rating to be issued should be limited to only those military helicopters that have been issued a TC either standard or restricted. In the case of Garlick helicopters, the OpSpecs should state "Garlick Helicopter OH-58" and those that were converted by Arrow Falcon Exporters will state "Arrow Falcon Exporters OH-58." NOTE: The PMI should be aware and inform their respective repair stations that part 145 and part 43 DOES NOT PROHIBIT a repair station from performing maintenance or alterations on non-type certificated products. However, 14 CFR does prohibit a repair station from returning that product to service under their repair station certificate. The reason for this position is the lack of performance standards such as manuals, data, etc. These manuals and information have never been accepted or approved by the FAA. 5. INQUIRIES. This bulletin was developed by the Flight Standards, Airworthiness Systems and Air Agencies Branch, AFS-350. Any questions concerning this HBAW should be directed to AFS-350 at (202) 267-3804. 6. LOCATION. The material covered in this bulletin will be incorporated in FAA Order 8300.10, Airworthiness Inspector's Handbook. Until the new material is incorporated, inspectors should make written reference to the bulletin in the margin of the affected chapter. /s/ John Tutora for Ava L.Mims, Manager, Aircraft Maintenance Division Paul Baechler wrote: In article , (Stephen Austin) wrote: This may or may not apply to the OH-58 but why not? I've always been told that it would be almost impossible to get an OH-58 into the Standard Category because of the modifications necessary. The people I have asked about this say that, while it could probably be done (one of those never say never deals), the cost would be totally prohibitive considering the number of 206's on the market. If I'm not mistaken I think the same holds true for the UH-1. It is for all practical purposes impossible to get a UH-1 into Standard Category, to do so would require replacing most of the basic airframe structure. Bell kept the military and civil 204/205 completely separate; different production lines, different spares/component lines, and a prohibition on the furnishing of civil components/spares to military users. Of course, after making the aircraft conform, you still have to get the serial number on the TCDS. -- Paul Baechler |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|