Looping a 2-33

every 2-33 manual i have seen says mild aerobatcs to 80 mph can be done (1-5 in link below). To loop a 2-33 is not dangerous, if you know what you are doing.


http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/...81F1DF8E.pd f

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 5:41:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
every 2-33 manual i have seen says mild aerobatcs to 80 mph can be done (1-5 in link below). To loop a 2-33 is not dangerous.

You sir are dangerously uninformed about aerobatics in Schweitzer gliders

Service Bulletin 'SA-003 Aerobatics in Schweizer Sailplane 25 Mar 1987'

supersedes the POH. Aerobatics are not approved.

A scan of the SB can be downloaded from http://www.klsoaring.com/index.php?o...tters&Itemid=6

While they were awaiting modification to the main spars for cracks, we
did 3-g loops (plus all the other aerobatics) in the T-33a. After the
mods, it was back to 7.33 g. The only difference being the entry
airspeed and altitude gained/lost. But we were much younger then and
totally immortal...

On 6/18/2015 4:47 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 5:41:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
every 2-33 manual i have seen says mild aerobatcs to 80 mph can be done (1-5 in link below). To loop a 2-33 is not dangerous.
You sir are dangerously uninformed about aerobatics in Schweitzer gliders

Service Bulletin 'SA-003 Aerobatics in Schweizer Sailplane 25 Mar 1987'

supersedes the POH. Aerobatics are not approved.

A scan of the SB can be downloaded from http://www.klsoaring.com/index.php?o...tters&Itemid=6

--
Dan Marotta

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 5:47:18 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 5:41:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
every 2-33 manual i have seen says mild aerobatcs to 80 mph can be done (1-5 in link below). To loop a 2-33 is not dangerous.

You sir are dangerously uninformed about aerobatics in Schweitzer gliders

Service Bulletin 'SA-003 Aerobatics in Schweizer Sailplane 25 Mar 1987'

supersedes the POH. Aerobatics are not approved.

A scan of the SB can be downloaded from http://www.klsoaring.com/index.php?o...tters&Itemid=6


The Schweizer Service Bulletin SA-003 refers to an older FAR defining "Aerobatic Flight". The new FAR is 91.303. Same parameters.
Read it and interpret it as you like. A known "hot dog" pilot pulled a wing off a 1-26 in Florida attempting aerobatics, which may have been the catalyst for this Service Bulletin. (Intervention needed at the club level for hot doggin' in club sailplanes and towplanes?)

Don't assume, read the FAA Definition of "Aerobatics" in FAR 91.303. No it is NOT the 30 degree nose up and 60 degree bank rule -- that's for wearing parachutes per FAR 91.307(c)

Also in 91.307(c) note that the only rating the spin training proficiency is "required" is for flight instructor. All other spin training flights require a parachute (with a current inspection.)

And just to clarify, spin training is not included (but stalls are required) in FAR part 61 for student solo, private and commercial pre-checkride training, however it is absolutely essential to teach the importance of coordinated flight and spin recoveries before solo, from spins that may occur in low altitude turns (low "save" or non-standard pattern), after a low-energy low pass, an uncoordinated base to final "overshoot" turn, a turn back after a low "PT3", when thermaling, when attempting cloud flying or "hot-doggin' "at any altitude.

By the way, I know that FAA inspectors are watching your videos on YouTube! So hold my beer and watch this . . .

I like chandelles and looping my new Schleicher ASK-21. It is the main aerobatic trainer in Europe. Because I could, I had it certificated at import into the USA as "Aerobatic".
But I REALLY enjoy teaching "soaring" . . . reading the sky, bracketing thermals, getting high and going cross-country. Isn't that what we REALLY do, as "lame" as that may seem to some?

If you want to experience or learn sailplane aerobatics, go to an instructor that specializes in it, in a sailplane properly certificated (and with a "G" meter.) For example, see the monthly full page ad inside the front cover of your SOARING magazine (Arizona Soaring.)

Using up MY 9 lives, one or two at a time in west Texas, USA . . .

Burt

Big difference between a 2-33 and a T-33a

BillT

'Bout the same glide ratio... 12:1 :-D

On 6/18/2015 6:26 PM, Bill T wrote:
Big difference between a 2-33 and a T-33a

BillT

--
Dan Marotta

Has there ever been a structural failure of a 2-33 doing loops?

Boggs

As I like to say, "in aviation the convenient and the unnecessary are invitations to an accident".

And isn't anybody going to comment on the Security 150? Come on people!

MM

Soaring itself is not necessary so should we all stay on the ground just to be safe?

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 5:47:18 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

You sir are dangerously uninformed about aerobatics in Schweitzer gliders

Service Bulletin 'SA-003 Aerobatics in Schweizer Sailplane 25 Mar 1987'

supersedes the POH. Aerobatics are not approved.

Did you actually read the Service Bulletin? It says "Aerobatics are not approved or RECOMMENDED" - because "the structural design levels of the sailplane could be exceeded".

Really? A lot of pilots exceed the structural design levels of their gliders without having to resort to fancy aerobatics - plain old takeoffs and landings seem to do just fine!

As has been posted elsewhere in this thread, this was just a cop-out by Schweizer to limit liability. Probably a good business move in the US, but it has NOTHING to do with the suitability of Schweizer gliders to do some aerobatics. The 2-32 is an excellent case in point - anyone who ever watched Les Horvath's airshow act in his yellow 2-32 can attest to that! And there is plenty of video of 1-26s being happily looped and rolled.

That being said, I'd be more concerned with the age of some of those horrible beasts!

Do yourself a favor and get some acro training (if you haven't already) - perhaps you will understand better what the load limits of an aircraft really mean. If you can't loop a glider safely within it's load and speed limits, you are the one who is "dangerously uninformed about aerobatics"!

Kirk
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