Flying a private plane around the Caribbean in spring 2004

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:47:03 -0000, "Julian Scarfe"
wrote:

"Capt. Doug" wrote in message
...

If you arrive in the US on a major airline, you will likely be issued a
green form in lieu of a visa. Keep the green form with during your trip
around the Caribbean or you won't be allowed back in the US. Enjoy your
trip!

As Martin suggests, I think it's more difficult than that. I've heard from
UK pilots who got into trouble presuming that they would be allowed to use
the visa waiver program when, after a trip to the Bahamas or similar, they
arrived back in the US in a light aircraft. You may need a full B-2 visa.

http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/...spect/vwpp.htm

"When Must I Obtain a Visa Instead of Using the VWP?
If you intend to arrive in the United States aboard a non-signatory air
carrier, you must obtain a nonimmigrant visa prior to boarding the
aircraft."

Julian Scarfe

I have a FAA Certificate and UK licence and twice flown to the
Bahamas.

First time no hassle, even when I had to divert to West Palm Beach due
to weather.

Second time I got the most awkward immigration guy you could imagine.
He wasn't pleased I gone out of the hall back to the aircraft
unaccompanied to get my passport.

He complained about me stepping over the line when nobody else was
ahead of me

He decided my permanent Visa was no longer valid as the regulations
had changed so he cancelled it! This was despite being accepted on my
arrival to the US a week earlier.

He asked why I had not checked with immigration on departure (not
possible, nor suggested, at Titusville, Florida). He said I should
have contacted them anyway though the first time I went to the Bahamas
no comment was made.

He wanted the address where I was staying but as I was late back I
still needed to find a hotel.

Despite recommendations of ease of customs/immigration I won't ever
use Fort Pierce again.


David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

On Sun, 2 Nov 2003 06:56:15 -0800, C J Campbell wrote:

| well, some of the above countries are on an evil axis, according to the
| current US administration. Also you should check with your Austrian and
| Danish embassy about travel warnings.

Really? I seem to recall only three countries being mentioned in the 'Axis
of Evil' speech, none of them in the western hemisphere.


they *are* evil. nobody has to make comments about it. either you are with
the gov'ment or you are !"§"!$§!11^^^well, I guess it is time for my
medication.

:-)

#m

--
http://www.refuseandresist.org/

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:44:33 +0000, wrote:

Second time I got the most awkward immigration guy you could imagine.
He wasn't pleased I gone out of the hall back to the aircraft
unaccompanied to get my passport.


well. their rules; you may find them silly, but it is their game.

He complained about me stepping over the line when nobody else was
ahead of me


another rule. you broke it.

He decided my permanent Visa was no longer valid as the regulations
had changed so he cancelled it! This was despite being accepted on my
arrival to the US a week earlier.


maybe the regulations changed within this week?

He asked why I had not checked with immigration on departure (not
possible, nor suggested, at Titusville, Florida). He said I should
have contacted them anyway though the first time I went to the Bahamas
no comment was made.


you did ADCUS? you informed them of your planned arrival time?

He wanted the address where I was staying but as I was late back I
still needed to find a hotel.


then tell him "I will check in at the Holiday Inn (or whatever chain)"

Despite recommendations of ease of customs/immigration I won't ever
use Fort Pierce again.


David

#m

--
http://www.refuseandresist.org/

C,

Really? I seem to recall only three countries being mentioned in the 'Axis
of Evil' speech, none of them in the western hemisphere.


He said "a", not "the". There's a war on drugs besides the war on terror.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 17:26:44 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:44:33 +0000, wrote:

Second time I got the most awkward immigration guy you could imagine.
He wasn't pleased I gone out of the hall back to the aircraft
unaccompanied to get my passport.


well. their rules; you may find them silly, but it is their game.


No objection to rules but a sign on the door to say no exit would be
helpful. Instead they left me filling in the forms and then went into
the next room. No sign of them when I looked.

He complained about me stepping over the line when nobody else was
ahead of me


another rule. you broke it.

As nobody in the hall so I called out and stepped towards the voices
in another room. No reply for a while until I moved forward!

He decided my permanent Visa was no longer valid as the regulations
had changed so he cancelled it! This was despite being accepted on my
arrival to the US a week earlier.


maybe the regulations changed within this week?

No, they apparently changed some considerable time before (2-3
years?).

He asked why I had not checked with immigration on departure (not
possible, nor suggested, at Titusville, Florida). He said I should
have contacted them anyway though the first time I went to the Bahamas
no comment was made.


you did ADCUS? you informed them of your planned arrival time?


Yes, but I had officially I left USA for Bahamas and not had any
documentation stamped. Now he wanted to know why. Not unreasonable but
nobody had suggested that's required and was not a problem on the
previous trip some years previous. I've not seen anything in any
documentation that I needed to leave from Florida at a Port of Entry.

He wanted the address where I was staying but as I was late back I
still needed to find a hotel.


then tell him "I will check in at the Holiday Inn (or whatever chain)"


I still had to fly back to Titusville so had no idea where I was
staying so I put then following nights address, at a resort. But I did
not have the complete address available with me!

Despite recommendations of ease of customs/immigration I won't ever
use Fort Pierce again.


David


This guy was unhelpful when asked and was simply being officious.
No sign of 'sorry but you should have done it another way'. Just being
as B*** awkward as he could have been!!!



E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot

Hi everybody

Thanks a lot for the replies - they are greatly appreciated! Keep them
coming :-)

As for the license ... I should have told you in the first mail of
course. Neither of us have an instrument rating and don't plan to get
one. We both have the Swiss JAR licenses. I also had the Australian
license back in 2000/2001, but that is invalid by now. We have no
extra endorsements (retractable undercarriage, float alighting gear,
constant-speed propeller, and the likes) but would consider doing them
if it is necessary or makes our lives easier on this trip.

I've already seen most of the US (covered 42 states by motorcycle in
1995) so other than hiring a plane there, I personally don't have an
urge to go to the states again - on this trip anyway. That would also
save us some visa-problems as pointed out by some of you. The question
then is if we can find another place where we can hire a plane (in a
reasonable condition). Four people + luggage + survival gear will
admitedly be hard, not to say impossible, in a PA28 for instance. So
we might look into something slightly bigger - maybe something with
retractable gear / turbo / constant speed or similar performance
improving technologies.

As for where to hire the plane I had an idea of going to one of the
British, French, or Dutch islands (Turks, Caicos, Virgin, Anguilla,
Point-a-Pitre, Martinique, etc.). At least Great Brittain and France
(not sure about Holland) are JAR-countries like Switzerland, so our
licenses should be valid there (unless there are special rules about
thos islands). However it will be a whole lot more expensive and
complicated to get to those islands then say Miami for example.

We'll definitely go and get both the "Bahamas and Caribbean Guide for
Pilots" and the Lonely Planet for the Eastern Caribbean. Is there any
literature of that kind (especially for pilots) for the South &
Central American countries (Venezuela, Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua,
Honduras, Guatemala)?

As for the drug-problem that was mentioned in a few postings: Even if
I did empty the entire plane of luggage before each departure ... I
couldn't possibly search all places where drugs could be hidden. And I
do imagine that professionals that do want to use us as drug couriers
would be able to hide those drugs in places I couldn't even think of
right now. Is that a real possibility - sound crazy to me to hide
stuff in my plane if they couldn't even be sure where I am going next!

Axis of evil are by definition (George W. Bush): Iraq, Iran and North
Corea (I think), but let's not get into that discussion - it could
easily drown the real issue here ;-). However, I do agree that some
countries are more suitable for vacation than others. Haiti for
instance doesn't sound so great. But which ones do you think we should
avoid?

Regards,
Klaus Bucka-Lassen

P.S.: This time I have only posted to rec.aviation.piloting since this
seems to be the right place now.

On 2 Nov 2003 12:59:36 -0800, Klaus Bucka-Lassen wrote:

Four people + luggage + survival gear will
admitedly be hard, not to say impossible, in a PA28 for instance. So
we might look into something slightly bigger - maybe something with
retractable gear / turbo / constant speed or similar performance
improving technologies.

Maybe a C182 will do the job.
You need a high speed endorsment for a C182.
And you might have some additional reqirements for renting a C182 (or any
other more powerful airplane).

Also look into insurance or check your rented plane for insurance coverage
in all those countries. You might need to buy additional insurance.

#m
--
http://www.refuseandresist.org/

wrote:

This guy was unhelpful when asked and was simply being officious.
No sign of 'sorry but you should have done it another way'. Just being
as B*** awkward as he could have been!!!

There have always been more horse's asses than there are horses.

George Patterson
You can dress a hog in a tuxedo, but he still wants to roll in the mud.

wrote in message
...
Despite recommendations of ease of customs/immigration I won't ever
use Fort Pierce again.


David

Piper Warrior G-BHJO
Scotland, UK

You and I are in TOTAL agreement.

The one, and only time, THIS US citizen flew through Ft Pierce to the
Bahamas will be the last.

The Ft Pierce Customs people were absolutely the most arrogant, rude, and
ignorant excuses for anything that passes for human beings I have ever
encountered in my life (I'm 59 now, and this was about 5 years ago).

Total dickheads. Now, after 911, and the advent of our wondrous new TSA
bureaucracy, I wouldn't even consider doing any such thing. It was broken
before, and more government can't have made it better.

"Klaus Bucka-Lassen" wrote in message
om...

As for where to hire the plane I had an idea of going to one of the
British, French, or Dutch islands (Turks, Caicos, Virgin, Anguilla,
Point-a-Pitre, Martinique, etc.). At least Great Brittain and France
(not sure about Holland) are JAR-countries like Switzerland, so our
licenses should be valid there (unless there are special rules about
thos islands). However it will be a whole lot more expensive and
complicated to get to those islands then say Miami for example.

In my opinion, you all have a HUGE amount of spunk (American slang for
"willingness to be adventurous", I guess) to even contemplate a trip like
this

However, I do agree that some countries are more suitable for vacation than
others. Haiti for
instance doesn't sound so great.

Sounds really bad to me.