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Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 23rd 17, 02:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

We used to have a KR-03 in the fleet where I did commercial rides. VNE is (from memory) not much over 100kts. Very easy to exceed that in any sort of botched maneuver. I did some dual aerobatic instruction in a Blanik L-13AC, which was actually quite nice. Better roll rate than the Grob 103 and a relatively decent VNE. Spins nicely.

The type certificate data sheets and AD history for all of the gliders you've listed are available online. I'd spend some time going through those as well as online copies of POHs. Especially if you are planning to take others up, it would be nice if you were operating within the current limitations. For example, Service Bulletin SA-003 prohibits aerobatics in Schweizer gliders overriding the POH (answering the question about an SGS-2-32).
  #12  
Old January 23rd 17, 07:09 AM
Eurofighter Eurofighter is offline
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The IS28B2 is well within your budget. It might suit your needs.
  #13  
Old January 23rd 17, 11:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

On Monday, January 23, 2017 at 4:29:51 AM UTC+3, Papa3 wrote:
We used to have a KR-03 in the fleet where I did commercial rides. VNE is (from memory) not much over 100kts. Very easy to exceed that in any sort of botched maneuver. I did some dual aerobatic instruction in a Blanik L-13AC, which was actually quite nice. Better roll rate than the Grob 103 and a relatively decent VNE. Spins nicely.


Yes, Blaniks are very manoeuvrable. We did a lot of aero in them back in the 80s. I'd be more worried now about whether they are as strong as they should be! They're pretty draggy and will lose energy and height quicker than the glass gliders. But on the other hand you've got to work REALLY hard to get them to 135 knots! Seriously nose down. And the brakes limit you to about 120 knots even in a vertical dive.
  #14  
Old January 23rd 17, 05:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

Bruce,

The L-13AC is a different aircraft. It's more of an L-23 but shortened wings, no flaps, and new empennage optimized for aerobatics. Good compromise between maneuverability without being too slick for newbies.

P3
  #15  
Old January 23rd 17, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

On Monday, January 23, 2017 at 7:19:58 PM UTC+3, Papa3 wrote:
Bruce,

The L-13AC is a different aircraft. It's more of an L-23 but shortened wings, no flaps, and new empennage optimized for aerobatics. Good compromise between maneuverability without being too slick for newbies.


Ahh, missed that. Thanks.
  #16  
Old January 23rd 17, 09:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

"Service Bulletin SA-003 prohibits aerobatics in Schweizer gliders overriding the POH (answering the question about an SGS-2-32)."

Actually, legally it doesn't. A service bulletin or note or advisory about an aircraft cannot override the approved flight manual or type certificate of an aircraft operated under the aegis of the FAA (Unless it was an alert service bulletin issued in order to get information out quickly while an AD is being processed - it wasn't an alert service bulletin). For it to be legally binding they would have to get an airworthiness directive issued. They did not do this. Not to long ago one of the engine manufacturers tried this sort of tactic and got in a bit of trouble. Whether its a good idea to do aerobatics in a 2-32 being flown in the utility category is a different matter and one I don't have an opinion on seeing as how I've never flown one or worked on one.

You can get a Grob Twin Astir or Twin II for a reasonable amount of money but unless you can find a Twin II Acro which has had the rear fuselage strengthening modification you won't have a glider approved for inverted flight or slow rolls.
  #17  
Old January 24th 17, 02:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SoaringXCellence
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

On Sunday, January 22, 2017 at 11:43:13 PM UTC-8, Eurofighter wrote:
The IS28B2 is well within your budget. It might suit your needs.




--
Eurofighter


one for sale on W&W for $24K, in Oregon.
  #18  
Old January 24th 17, 04:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Munk
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

The Twin Astir is according to the FM approved for simple aerobatics only
(loops, stall turn, lazy 8, chandelle, spin).

t 20:44 23 January 2017, wrote:
"Service Bulletin SA-003 prohibits aerobatics in Schweizer gliders
overridi=
ng the POH (answering the question about an SGS-2-32)."

Actually, legally it doesn't. A service bulletin or note or advisory

about
=
an aircraft cannot override the approved flight manual or type

certificate
=
of an aircraft operated under the aegis of the FAA (Unless it was an

alert
=
service bulletin issued in order to get information out quickly while an
AD=
is being processed - it wasn't an alert service bulletin). For it to be
le=
gally binding they would have to get an airworthiness directive issued.
The=
y did not do this. Not to long ago one of the engine manufacturers tried
th=
is sort of tactic and got in a bit of trouble. Whether its a good idea to
d=
o aerobatics in a 2-32 being flown in the utility category is a different
m=
atter and one I don't have an opinion on seeing as how I've never flown
one=
or worked on one.

You can get a Grob Twin Astir or Twin II for a reasonable amount of money
b=
ut unless you can find a Twin II Acro which has had the rear fuselage
stren=
gthening modification you won't have a glider approved for inverted

flight
=
or slow rolls.


  #19  
Old January 24th 17, 05:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Whisky
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

Le mardi 24 janvier 2017 16:45:06 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écritÂ*:
The Twin Astir is according to the FM approved for simple aerobatics only
(loops, stall turn, lazy 8, chandelle, spin).


The Twin 1 is full aerobatics (but I don't know about flick rolls).
  #20  
Old January 26th 17, 06:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Aerobatic Two Seat Gliders?

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 8:07:09 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
Le mardi 24 janvier 2017 16:45:06 UTC+1, Eric Munk a écritÂ*:
The Twin Astir is according to the FM approved for simple aerobatics only
(loops, stall turn, lazy 8, chandelle, spin).


The Twin 1 is full aerobatics (but I don't know about flick rolls).


No, it's not. Simple aerobatics only: loop, stall turn, spin, chandelle.
 




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