Wax, Teflon, Wx?

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
Wx?
I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.

Guy

When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)

Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.

Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.

Richard

"I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.."

Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?

Ask and ye shall receive. https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...er_5869-1.html

FWIW... I use 3M Finesse-It II polish and 3M Liquid Marine Wax using a heavy duty polisher (Dewalt variable speed polisher) and the recommended polishing and waxing pads. I do a full treatment every spring and then the tops of the wings at least once or twice during the season.

When I sold my 14 year old LS8, the person who did the final once-over before the new buyer accepted it said it was "the best he'd ever seen newer gelcoat look". I'm not 100% sure I'd go that far, but the 3M stuff is good for the average person who doesn't want to do a full hardwax using the heavy-duty cotton wheel.

My opinion is that doing something is better than not doing anything because it's too time-consuming, expensive, etc. The 3M liquid wax is easy enough to use that I can do both wings on a regular flying day after assembly or after flying. So, I use it more reliably.

P3

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 6:32:58 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
Wx?
I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.

Guy

When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)

Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.

Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.

Richard

"I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time."

Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?

Probably not much.

Richard

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 10:57:47 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 6:32:58 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 9:20:49 AM UTC-4, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:19:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, December 25, 2006 at 10:09:06 AM UTC-5, Guy Acheson wrote:
Getting ready for the winter plane projects. The question
comes up every year...what to smear over the gel coat.
Is there any credible comparison of wax vs PTFE vs
Wx?
I don't want to hear about avoiding silicones because
that seems to be a non-issue since refinishers don't
have much of a problem doing repairs and repainting.

Guy

When I worked a lab technician for a paint company - we would test coatings on samples that were left out in the elements 24x7. Has someone done a test like this on gelcoat/glass samples that were protected by wax or other products? It is an important issue to many of us - maybe we need a 'Dick Johnson' performance comparison. :-)

Many year ago I owned part of a paint company. We had several UV clear coat products. The active UV chemical was tinuvin and very expensive. Two types one for stabilizing the resin and one for blocking the UV. I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time.

Waxing is good for those who like to wax. WAX on WAX OFF.

Richard

"I really doubt if wax will hold the blocking agents for any length of time."

Do you mean wax specifically - or any topically applied UV blocker. Looking at
film thickness - can a topical layer a few microns thick actually block UV?

Probably not much.

Richard

Looking at an experiment ... if you took a piece of glass or plastic that was transparent to UV ... and measured the in-the-sun UV strength with a UV 'light' meter ... then applied a topical UV blocker and measured again - wouldn't this tell you the effectiveness of a UV blocker?

Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.

When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.

Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.

For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.

I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.

Karl Striedieck

Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.

Bill Gagen


On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.

When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.

Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.

For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.

I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.

Karl Striedieck

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 11:39:58 PM UTC-4, Bill G wrote:
Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.

Bill Gagen


On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.

When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.

Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.

For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.

I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.

Karl Striedieck

Bill,

Not sure on the silicone question, but my understanding is that it is irrelevent regarding structural repairs because the scarfing process removes so much laminate the silicone is long gone. Could be a nuisance for a cosmetic gel coat touch up, but hasn't been for me.

Should work on your Stemme, the glider type doesn't matter of course.

Here's a link to a thorough test of numerous marine gel coat protective products. They rated the 3M 09062 highest. https://www.practical-sailor.com/new...PS0110_wax.pdf

I'm sure the high volume repair shops would have a point of view, but in my experience as a part-time refinisher and occasional assistant to glass guys doing real repairs, the whole Silicon thing is a red herring. As Karl suggests, any repair involves a huge amount of sanding and cleaning. Even a minor gelcoat repair gets the area cleaned with Prepsolve or Acetone followed by sanding.

I wonder whether this is one of those stories that started with a real problem (maybe a guy with a badly crazed glider using spray silicon from a can on the leading edges to keep the bugs off)? I could see where saturating the gelcoat if it's crazed MIGHT weep down into the substrate fibers.

I'd be interested in hearing of practical examples of problems.




On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 10:02:41 AM UTC-4, Karl Striedieck wrote:
On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 11:39:58 PM UTC-4, Bill G wrote:
Hi Karl, is that silicone free? Wondering if this will work on my 1995 Stemme? It seems like it would be a good choice and I respect your endorsement a ton.

Bill Gagen


On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:36:46 PM UTC-6, Karl Striedieck wrote:
Like P3, I've had great results with 3M (Scotchguard) Marine Liquid Wax 09062.

When I sold my 2002 Duo 2 years ago the gel coat was as good as new.

Process: Use an eight inch random orbital buffer, first with an applicator pad, then when dry, switch the pad to a wool buffer pad. Very little effort required to get a good-as-new, water-beading, UV protection gloss.

For oxidized gel coat (not cracked) use 3M Marine Restorer and Wax 09006.

I've used the heavy duty edge buffers ala the factory, and high speed pad buffers as well, but they don't give any better results, are heftier to use and risk serious damage (and injury) if you catch an edge, corner, the cord, or a seal.A random orbital buffer isn't subject to these hazards.

Karl Striedieck

Bill,

Not sure on the silicone question, but my understanding is that it is irrelevent regarding structural repairs because the scarfing process removes so much laminate the silicone is long gone. Could be a nuisance for a cosmetic gel coat touch up, but hasn't been for me.

Should work on your Stemme, the glider type doesn't matter of course.

Here's a link to a thorough test of numerous marine gel coat protective products. They rated the 3M 09062 highest. https://www.practical-sailor.com/new...PS0110_wax.pdf

Ok very good! thank you both!

http://www.glidecoat.com/

This stuff might be worth investigating then based on your comments.

Glidecoat Top Coating is engineered to virtually restore the boats original color while retaining the gloss and protecting the gel coat for up to 18 months from UV damage, dirt, stains, fish blood and salt.
Formulated with Smart Surface Technology, Top Coating will reduced active solids that produce a thin film to allow multi-coating situations, giving the ability to be re-applied on a more frequent basis. The thinner and more forgiving coating is a great replacement for standard wax providing enhanced shine and color restoration that cannot be obtained through a normal wax application.
Glidecoat Top Coating is engineered to penetrate damaged gel coat and paint to restore the original color pigment and provide a glossy shine that is better than new. Unlike wax, Top Coating creates a hard coating and protects the boat from UV damage that penetrates the surface of the vessel. Wax tends to break down quickly, and is a short-term solution before the surface deteriorates and needs to be re-waxed.