No uranium, no munitions, no missiles, no programmes

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...
captain! wrote:

"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
om...

http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=21801&lang=en

No uranium, no munitions, no missiles, no programmes

they have found tons of munitions.
What kind of munitions do you think that Petkhov was
refering to?
What kind of munitions were found?
What can this be considered as evidence of?


small arms, ammunition, rpgs, bombs, shells:
things that the iraqi army left behind. (some stored in warehouses)
this can be considered evidence that there were munitions found.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

:First, there is the allegation that a biologist had a "collection of
:reference strains" at his home, including "a vial of live C botulinum
:Okra B from which a biological agent can be produced".

:Botulinum type B could also be used for making an antidote to common
:botulinum poisoning. That is one of the reasons why many military
:laboratories around the world keep reference strains of C botulinum
:Okra B. The UK keeps such substances, for example, and calls them
:"seed banks".

But when the US CDC sends such things to Iraq, your ilk trumpet the
claim that we're sending them biological weapons stocks....


There's an interesting article the BBC published yesterday
about David Kay The man spearheading the US hunt for
banned weapons in Iraq. He said he is surprised attention
has focused on what his Iraq Survey Group has not found,
rather than on the things it has uncovered.

He says his Iraq Survey Group has uncovered evidence of
banned activities which the United Nations and pre-war
intelligence had not known about, including 24 clandestine
laboratories and four unreported missile programmes.

He also insisted his report last week to US Congress was interim.
"I know we're going to find remarkable things about Iraq's
weapons programmes," he said.

We're not going to find out anything about Iraq's missle
programs. Since we don't even find out anything about
the US's missle program. UN employees need to be reminded
that weekly, since not only are most of them
unemployed CIA, many are just everyday morons.


Keith

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:56:30 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

Because two-thirds of the United Nations is run by people who *wish*
they could be the same sort of *******.

Fair comment, but this isn't a UN action anyway, it's a unilateral
action by the US and Blair got caught in the draft of tailgating
Bush's ass.

If it's OK to ignore the UN now, why so squeamish in '91 ?

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

(ZZBunker) wrote in message . com...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

:First, there is the allegation that a biologist had a "collection of
:reference strains" at his home, including "a vial of live C botulinum
:Okra B from which a biological agent can be produced".

:Botulinum type B could also be used for making an antidote to common
:botulinum poisoning. That is one of the reasons why many military
:laboratories around the world keep reference strains of C botulinum
:Okra B. The UK keeps such substances, for example, and calls them
:"seed banks".

But when the US CDC sends such things to Iraq, your ilk trumpet the
claim that we're sending them biological weapons stocks....


There's an interesting article the BBC published yesterday
about David Kay The man spearheading the US hunt for
banned weapons in Iraq. He said he is surprised attention
has focused on what his Iraq Survey Group has not found,
rather than on the things it has uncovered.

He says his Iraq Survey Group has uncovered evidence of
banned activities which the United Nations and pre-war
intelligence had not known about, including 24 clandestine
laboratories and four unreported missile programmes.

He also insisted his report last week to US Congress was interim.
"I know we're going to find remarkable things about Iraq's
weapons programmes," he said.

We're not going to find out anything about Iraq's missle
programs. Since we don't even find out anything about
the US's missle program. UN employees need to be reminded
that weekly, since not only are most of them
unemployed CIA, many are just everyday morons.

Spend 10 minutes a week with Aviation Week and Space Technology, you
will know more about the US missile programs than you ought to know.
Back in the 70s I was visited by a Soviet engineer-diplomat who picked
up Av Week read it carefully and then said "In my country this would
be a classified document."

Keith Willshaw wrote:

"Yama" wrote in message


"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
But, without the weapons that they're probably not going to find because
they
don't exist, how badly could those programs have injured anybody?

Today not all

In 5 years time when the sanctions have been lifted
and Iraq can buy all the components it wants and
go back into production of WMD and the missiles
to carry them who knows ?

But that wasn't the point, was it? US&UK attacked Iraq because of it's
supposed _immediate_ threat. If you start invading coutries based on their
ability to develope WMD and ballistic missile capability within 5 years,
there probably are like, oh, 100 nations which need to be invaded right
away.

The ability to develop weapons programs and the act
of having clandestine weapons programs specifically
prohibited by the UN are somewhat different beasts.

The Iraqi regime having invaded two of its neighbours and
having use WMD on its own people was a known threat.

The fact that they have indeed been found to be developing
such clandestine programs seems to indicate the leopard
hadnt changed its spots. Now the inquiry into the Hutton
affair seems to indicate some doubt about how immediate
various sources thought was correct, however when dealing with
a regime as secrestive as Iraq its always going to be hard to
get it right

Interestingly (and ironically) the war has allowed us to more fully know
what Saddam was doing. OK, no apparent *readily available" WMDs, but
very definitely programs and even materials ready for rapid start up
as soon as the sanctions went away.

The Kay report pretty much shows that the UN inspections *did* slow
and hamper Saddam's weapons programs. The report does also show that
the UN inspections didn't know all that was going on, and never would.
Only actual occupation by US/UK has allowed us to more fully know what
was going on.

Now, there is more and more evidence being uncovered that Bush and Blair not
only exaggarated and were ignorant about true Iraqi capabilities, they were
downright lying to public about them.

Why should international community believe them ever again?

And yet you'd have us believe Saddam Hussein and presumably
lift the sanctions, which were killing more Iraqis per year than
the war, if you believe the relief organisations.

Fact is the situation was a running sore, the options were
ignore the infection or lance the boil.

As someone put it, Saddam Hussein himself was a WMD and he is [perhaps
only for the moment] gone.

For me, that is good enough!


SMH

Andy Dingley wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:56:30 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

Because two-thirds of the United Nations is run by people who *wish*
they could be the same sort of *******.

Fair comment, but this isn't a UN action anyway, it's a unilateral
action by the US and Blair got caught in the draft of tailgating
Bush's ass.

If it's OK to ignore the UN now, why so squeamish in '91 ?

1) Because they had not yet proven to be worthless
2) Because there was hope that popping SH in the nose would either
straighten him out or convince his folks to overthrow him
3) Because we didn't know France, Germany and Russia would sell their
souls for construction contracts
4) Because 4 airliners and 3 buildings made many in the US remember
that we cant ignore problems 'over there' and hope they will go away
5) Because we had hoped to build a better understanding with more
moderate Arab countries
6) Because we got tired of sitting in the desert of Saudi Arabia
accomplishing nothing without a cold beer.
7) Because George Sr believed in a 'kinder and gentler' world, when
the same old scum still are out there.

Just a few thoughts

captain! wrote:

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...

captain! wrote:


"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
e.com...


http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=21801&lang=en

No uranium, no munitions, no missiles, no programmes


they have found tons of munitions.
What kind of munitions do you think that Petkhov was
refering to?
What kind of munitions were found?
What can this be considered as evidence of?



small arms, ammunition, rpgs, bombs, shells:
things that the iraqi army left behind. (some stored in warehouses)
this can be considered evidence that there were munitions found.

I repeat:
What kind of munitions do you think that Petukhov was
refering to?
(Hint, suggestion - Think WMD)

the word "munitions" covers a very broad range of things. i pointed out the
error that the author made in claiming that none were found.

you can play guessing games about what michael meant if you want. i go by
facts.

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
news
captain! wrote:

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" wrote in message
...

captain! wrote:


"Michael Petukhov" wrote in message
e.com...


http://www1.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_art...=21801&lang=en

No uranium, no munitions, no missiles, no programmes


they have found tons of munitions.
What kind of munitions do you think that Petkhov was
refering to?
What kind of munitions were found?
What can this be considered as evidence of?



small arms, ammunition, rpgs, bombs, shells:
things that the iraqi army left behind. (some stored in warehouses)
this can be considered evidence that there were munitions found.

I repeat:
What kind of munitions do you think that Petukhov was
refering to?
(Hint, suggestion - Think WMD)

In message , Michael Williamson
writes
Also, in some cases there is still reason to believe that the
weapons existed up until at least just prior to the war. Kay
reportedly has
received testimony that Iraq was still producing Scud fuel, which is
not used by any Iraqi equipment except Scuds (none that we know of,
anyway).

I could be wrong, but aren't Scuds powered by a mix of hydrazine and
nitric acid? Which, again subject to error, powers the booster for the
SA-2 missile in widespread use in Iraq? (I'm sure both use red fuming
nitric acid as oxidiser - kerosene is hardly a classified agent and
hydrazine is widely used too)

As Kay asked in one interview, what do you need to produce
rocket fuel for if you don't have a rocket to use it in?

The Iraqis were still allowed to use rocket-powered weapons, just with
limitations.

While we
await confirmation or refutation of the testimony, we can't rule out
Scud missiles still being in the inventory 12 years after Iraq agreed
to destroy them under the ceasefire agreement.

They're not small or inconspicuous, and they need regular maintenance -
should be easy enough to find. (Liquid-fuelled rockets take a lot of
care and feeding if they're ready to use, or else a big effort to
prepare and fuel if stored dry - exactly the reason the US rapidly
abandoned them)

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

(Jack Linthicum) wrote in message . com...
(ZZBunker) wrote in message . com...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
(Michael Petukhov) wrote:

:First, there is the allegation that a biologist had a "collection of
:reference strains" at his home, including "a vial of live C botulinum
:Okra B from which a biological agent can be produced".

:Botulinum type B could also be used for making an antidote to common
:botulinum poisoning. That is one of the reasons why many military
:laboratories around the world keep reference strains of C botulinum
:Okra B. The UK keeps such substances, for example, and calls them
:"seed banks".

But when the US CDC sends such things to Iraq, your ilk trumpet the
claim that we're sending them biological weapons stocks....


There's an interesting article the BBC published yesterday
about David Kay The man spearheading the US hunt for
banned weapons in Iraq. He said he is surprised attention
has focused on what his Iraq Survey Group has not found,
rather than on the things it has uncovered.

He says his Iraq Survey Group has uncovered evidence of
banned activities which the United Nations and pre-war
intelligence had not known about, including 24 clandestine
laboratories and four unreported missile programmes.

He also insisted his report last week to US Congress was interim.
"I know we're going to find remarkable things about Iraq's
weapons programmes," he said.

We're not going to find out anything about Iraq's missle
programs. Since we don't even find out anything about
the US's missle program. UN employees need to be reminded
that weekly, since not only are most of them
unemployed CIA, many are just everyday morons.

Spend 10 minutes a week with Aviation Week and Space Technology, you
will know more about the US missile programs than you ought to know.
Back in the 70s I was visited by a Soviet engineer-diplomat who picked
up Av Week read it carefully and then said "In my country this would
be a classified document."

That's redundent. Since in Russia, *every* printed document is a
classified document. Since Russia is not a country.
It's a clerk with an AK-47.

I beg to differ. The Air Force needs to be reminded weekly
that Aviation Week and Space Technology is an
*Air Force* Missle Review. The US Army Missles are nothing
like US Air Force Missles. Since the Army missles shoot
to kill, rather than shoot to shoot.