Auto-Towing - why is this not more popular?

On 10/11/2015 9:09 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
I get stuck on the attitude of "giving up and heading for the pattern".
What works for me is to keep trying until I must lower the gear, turn base,
and land. There's no pattern (for me, at least) when flying that low.
Pick a a touchdown spot early, on airport or off, and work the lift until
you feel that your touchdown spot will soon become out of reach. Maybe
you'll drift to a location where there's another safe landing spot, maybe
not. The comfort comes from developing that feeling for the glider and its
response to your input.

Pretty much, "What Dan said." Where-n-when I obtained my license was a shared
field (Cumberland, MD) and I had it beat into my skull to "NEVER be trying to
soar below pattern altitude (or you'll screw it up for gliding here, and quite
possibly also do somethings else stupid)!!!" So the first question the Chief
Instructor (not mine, but one from whom I'd heard the above message) asked me
after I'd abandoned a 5-hour attempt after approximately 4 hours and 55
minutes late on an overcast afternoon during which there'd been essentially
zero other traffic of any kind was, "What'd you quit circling for? There was
nobody around!" I'd known that, but...and the question didn't diminish the
bloom on my rose one iota.

Fast forward a few years and maybe a couple hundred total soaring hours to
Boulder, CO, another (almost guaranteed-to-be-busy) shared airport. There,
simple self-preservation is usually sufficient for Joe Average Glider Pilot to
realize on his own that circling down/below pattern altitude as if the sky
isn't a shared resource, is dangerously foolish, with or without instructor or
peer input. That said, the relatively busy pattern entry sky is simultaneously
a superb training location for improving one's situational awareness when
simultaneously trying to avoid having to land. Over the years there've been
times I pulled the plug as high as (say) 1300' agl, and other times I've hung
on to below 1000' agl delaying my pattern waiting for less congested
pattern-or-field conditions, and (rarely) some times landing farther down the
field was the safest and sanest choice, ground-convenience be damned. I can
recall only twice when my "Shoot - landing required!" planning didn't result
in my desired outcome, once due to a grossly situationally-unaware, visiting,
bozo glider pilot who barged into the pattern from an unapproved/"wind-wrong"
direction at about 500' agl, and once from a local pilot burning off several
thousand feet of altitude in an almighty rush to get on the ground "just
because." In both cases, I simply landed well down the runway to avoid 'em.
Point being, there's "no guaranteed magic" about a height-agl number when it
comes to pattern planning, and if Joe Pilot insists on thinking there is, he's
setting himself up for (at the very least) some future disappointments.

That was all in my mid-twenties, ~40 years ago.

Bob - head on a swivel is good! - W.

On Sun, 11 Oct 2015 09:09:00 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

I get stuck on the attitude of "giving up and heading for the pattern".
What works for me is to keep trying until I must lower the gear, turn
base, and land. There's no pattern (for me, at least) when flying that
low. Pick a a touchdown spot early, on airport or off, and work the
lift until you feel that your touchdown spot will soon become out of
reach. Maybe you'll drift to a location where there's another safe
landing spot, maybe not. The comfort comes from developing that feeling
for the glider and its response to your input.

Well said.

In addition, the 'several hundred' winch launches shouldn't be needed: a
good summer's local soaring should do the job for a signed-off solo
pilot. Realistically thats no more than 100 launches at the outside.

Don't forget that all the critical stuff, such as being able to fly
approaches from any point round the field onto any sensible run on the
field and getting rid of any fixation on using local landmarks when
judging circuits and landings, should have been covered pre-solo.
Similarly, dealing with cable breaks and winch failures at various
heights and stages in the launch should have been adequately covered
before getting the winch sign-off.

I did essentially all my training on the winch, soloing on my 80th flight
and being sent off in a Junior to complete Silver C with the distance
flight (off the winch) as my 207th launch as soon as I've been signed off
for the Bronze XC endorsement. A quick logbook scan says that, of those
207 flights, 11 were aero tows [1] and 4 were in an SF-25 TMG[2].

[1] That was for a spin demo in our Puchacz. Our summer instructor that
year knew how to spin an ASK-21 without any tail weights, etc. and so I
got my spin sign-offs in the ASK-21 with him off winch launches on good,
thermally days

[2] three of these SF-25 flights were normal take-offs. The remaining one
was a winch launch - I was visiting Nympsfield and got offered a ride
over to Aston Down (my first on type) in an SF-25, which was fitted with
a winch hook on its u/c strut. Its owner had it winched for the return
flight to show me what it could do. It felt very odd to be going up the
wire with the prop brake set to keep the prop clear of the cable and one
blade stationary in front of us (a 3-blader before you ask). Once
released at 1300, we glided around a bit before making an air start at
900 ft and flying back to NYM to soar the ridge a bit before landing.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 11:09:08 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I get stuck on the attitude of "giving up and heading for the
pattern".* What works for me is to keep trying until I must lower
the gear, turn base, and land.* There's no pattern (for me, at
least) when flying that low.* Pick a a touchdown spot early, on
airport or off, and work the lift until you feel that your touchdown
spot will soon become out of reach.* Maybe you'll drift to a
location where there's another safe landing spot, maybe not.* The
comfort comes from developing that feeling for the glider and its
response to your input.

This is a practice that may work for you, but is anywhere from a little unsafe to really dangerous for others.
How does the guy flying a regular pattern deal with these antics?
There are many good reasons to know when to stop soaring and start landing, the top of the list being you are much less likely to crash.
Dan may make it work for him but I'm on record as saying it is bad practice and sets a terrible example.
UH

Not everything can be said in a simple paragraph; there are nuances,
pop-ups, what-ifs, etc., and there's not enough time to mention all of
them here. What I'm talking about is skill, practice, observation,
planning, and, most of all, judgement, and apparently from some of the
attitudes I read here, there's not enough of the latter.

Making a low save away from the airport, there are not the pattern
issues mentioned. This is my field and I'll do what I want. ...Unless
there's another glider also needing to land. Most often if that's the
case, the other pilot also has some of what it takes to be a safe glider
pilot or he wouldn't be in the same situation (stretching his wings) so
I trust him and assume he trusts me not to put each other into danger.

If low at the airport and trying to make a save, I'll consider pattern
issues. Is it a small strip? A single runway? Other traffic in the
pattern or in the area? Am I positioned for opposite traffic? Do the
winds permit a safe landing from that position? Will there be room? I
could go on with what-ifs for quite some time, but I hope you get the
idea. Where I fly there are two wide runways, each approximately 7,000'
long and very little traffic. Takeoff staging is about 1,700' from the
threshold of the runway and landings routinely exit on the exceptionally
wide (500' at the narrowest) staging area behind the launch. There are
also two parallel taxiways to land on, if necessary.

So, do you call all of this thought and planning and situational
awareness bad practice? It seems to me that less experienced pilots
would be better served by seeing what is possible in unusual situations
rather than being hobbled by one simple rule for every situation. I'll
go on record stating that exercising flexibility and judgement is safer
than fixed protocol every time.

On 10/11/2015 5:05 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 11:09:08 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
I get stuck on the attitude of "giving up and heading for the
pattern". What works for me is to keep trying until I must lower
the gear, turn base, and land. There's no pattern (for me, at
least) when flying that low. Pick a a touchdown spot early, on
airport or off, and work the lift until you feel that your touchdown
spot will soon become out of reach. Maybe you'll drift to a
location where there's another safe landing spot, maybe not. The
comfort comes from developing that feeling for the glider and its
response to your input.
This is a practice that may work for you, but is anywhere from a little unsafe to really dangerous for others.
How does the guy flying a regular pattern deal with these antics?
There are many good reasons to know when to stop soaring and start landing, the top of the list being you are much less likely to crash.
Dan may make it work for him but I'm on record as saying it is bad practice and sets a terrible example.
UH





--
Dan, 5J

Hi Sean another small video of a car Launch from this years Safari to the Kerry Beaches. Typical Irish Gliding weather - low cloudbase, weak ridge lift and rain, a lot worse than what you had in Chilhowee!

Regards
Bruno

Bruno. That is really cool!!!! Thx for sharing!

Sean
7T

Sorry here is the link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=NnhoE7G68YM

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 10:16:34 AM UTC-5, Muttley wrote:
Sorry here is the link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=NnhoE7G68YM

Wonderful! Is this the beach at Inch?

Years and Years ago, when a mere student pilot on vacation, we stumbled on a similar operation there. Similar weather - the wind was really howling - similar K13 - but I just watched for a while.

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 8:39:50 AM UTC-7, Sarah wrote:
On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 10:16:34 AM UTC-5, Muttley wrote:
Sorry here is the link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=NnhoE7G68YM

Wonderful! Is this the beach at Inch?

Years and Years ago, when a mere student pilot on vacation, we stumbled on a similar operation there. Similar weather - the wind was really howling - similar K13 - but I just watched for a while.

Instead of bug wipers they need window wipers!

On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 4:39:50 PM UTC+1, Sarah wrote:
On Sunday, October 11, 2015 at 10:16:34 AM UTC-5, Muttley wrote:
Sorry here is the link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=NnhoE7G68YM

Wonderful! Is this the beach at Inch?

Years and Years ago, when a mere student pilot on vacation, we stumbled on a similar operation there. Similar weather - the wind was really howling - similar K13 - but I just watched for a while.

Yes this Launch is from Inch Beach but I think in a KA8.

Bruno