"View Limiting Device" recommendations please

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:26:45 -0800 (PST), wrote:


There is a HUGE difference to me between actual and simulated.
Besides the visual clues (shadows moving etc.), you always have that
"security blanket" of knowing you can remove the device and see the
real horizon whenever you want.

I've been training mostly at night (to eliminate shadows), and I want
the most realistic (and most comfortable) device I can find.

I find my Jeppshades, while flying over dark ground or water at
night, just as good as actual. I have a bunch of fields in my area
with over water approaches.

On 2008-01-20 09:26:45 -0800, said:

On Jan 19, 6:08 pm, wrote:
On Jan 15, 12:32 am, wrote:
IMHO If you use foggles only, you are cheating yourself:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications...m?article=4849

I completely agree. No cheating allowed.

I've only been in "actual" a few times.

I invariably become disoriented upon entering actual IMC. For me, I
think that is a good thing, as it forces me to immediately rely on the
instruments. That never happens to me under the hood or using any other
view-limiting device.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, of course, we have plenty of opportunity
to fly in the clouds.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

With a good instructor the exact kind of view limiting device is
unimportant. I was flying with Foggles on and suddenly something went
"wrong". The plane felt funny, it sounded strange and the instruments were
nutty. I muttered something to the CFII but he didn't say anything. The
airspeed was increasing so I cut the power and centered the ball to get the
wings level. Things got back to normal and Mr. CFII took his foot off the
rudder pedal!


wrote in message
...
On Jan 19, 6:08 pm, wrote:
On Jan 15, 12:32 am, wrote:



I've been working on that elusive instrument rating for awhile now,
but I still haven't come up with a very good solution for my view
limiting device.

I need to wear glasses for reading (charts), but otherwise I see just
fine. I wear progressive lenses (for presbyopia) that vary from a
diopter of 2.5 on the bottom to almost no correction on the top. Most
"devices" only let you see out of the bottom of your glasses, which
works for reading but then the panel is blurry. I have to remove the
entire contraption if I want to see the "runway environment".

I've tried foggles, and a "real" wraparound hood. The hood seems to
work the best, but I get a "crushing" headache from wearing the
headset, hood, and glasses. Maybe it's because it's an old style that
clamps around you head!

I've noticed some alternatives on the market including; Overcasters,
Hoodwinks, and one called Viban.

Have any of you had success with a particular type of hood? I would
be very interested to hear your opinions, especially if you also wear
progressive or bifocal lens glasses.

Thanks!

Steve Job

IMHO If you use foggles only, you are cheating yourself:

http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications...m?article=4849

I completely agree. No cheating allowed.

I've only been in "actual" a few times. The most interesting was in
winter during a very dark night, with no moon and several layers of
clouds. In between the layers it was pitch black. While in the
clouds, we started to pick up some light rime ice. I could see the AI
start to indicate a left (or right) bank, but it just didn't "feel"
right. The yoke seemed to be almost frozen when I tried to correct
based on the instruments. I just couldn't reconcile my incorrect
feeling of banking left, with the reality of banking right. It took a
tremendous mental effort to make the right control inputs. This had
never happened using a view limiting device.

There is a HUGE difference to me between actual and simulated.
Besides the visual clues (shadows moving etc.), you always have that
"security blanket" of knowing you can remove the device and see the
real horizon whenever you want.

I've been training mostly at night (to eliminate shadows), and I want
the most realistic (and most comfortable) device I can find.

I've only made a few subsequent excursions into the clouds after that
winter night, and that was while I was wearing my hood. It wasn't as
bad as the first time, but I almost preferred to keep the hood
on! ;)

Since I need glasses I also had problems finding a good view limiting
device for IFR training. While flying in a friends airplane, I
noticed his device and tried it on. I immediatly purchased one:

Hoodlamb - attaches to your headset.

http://www.tagpilotsupply.com/index....ROD&ProdID=359

I have no problems with adjusting it so that I can clearly see the
instruments while wearing my glasses
The only negative is the process of putting it on and off. I have to
remove the headset, then attach it, then put the headset back on. It
does not lend itself to making an IFR approach then transitioning to a
visual approach for the landing.

John

On Jan 14, 11:32*pm, wrote:
I've been working on that elusive instrument rating for awhile now,
but I still haven't come up with a very good solution for my view
limiting device.

I need to wear glasses for reading (charts), but otherwise I see just
fine. *I wear progressive lenses (for presbyopia) that vary from a
diopter of 2.5 on the bottom to almost no correction on the top. *Most
"devices" only let you see out of the bottom of your glasses, which
works for reading but then the panel is blurry. *I have to remove the
entire contraption if I want to see the "runway environment".



Have any of you had success with a particular type of hood? *I would
be very interested to hear your opinions, especially if you also wear
progressive or bifocal lens glasses.

Thanks!

Steve Job

In rec.aviation.student Stubby wrote:
nutty. I muttered something to the CFII but he didn't say anything. The
airspeed was increasing so I cut the power and centered the ball to get the
wings level.

How did centering the ball level the wings?

Things got back to normal and Mr. CFII took his foot off the
rudder pedal!

How did you center the ball with his foot on the rudder pedal?

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

In rec.aviation.student Ron Garret wrote:
They are what I use now (but I don't wear bifocals -- yet.)

You will. Eventually.

.... Alan
--
Alan Gerber
PP-ASEL
gerber AT panix DOT com

On Jan 15, 1:16*pm, "akjcbkJA" wrote:
In England, the hood type devices are not allowed for serious instrument
training or checkrides.

The aircraft have to be fitted with a sort of venetian blind which
completely blocks out the outside world to the trainee/applicant but al lows
the instructor/examiner a full view.

In practice they are really good as the head is not restricted, there is no
scope to peak either. A bit expensive as they tend to be fitted to
Instrument training aircraft although I have seen some removable versions.

Forget spotting traffic...how does the trainee transition to visual
for the landing? Must the instructor land the aircraft? Seems to be
an odd solution.

In England, the hood type devices are not allowed for serious instrument
training or checkrides.

The aircraft have to be fitted with a sort of venetian blind which
completely blocks out the outside world to the trainee/applicant but al
lows
the instructor/examiner a full view.

In practice they are really good as the head is not restricted, there is
no
scope to peak either. A bit expensive as they tend to be fitted to
Instrument training aircraft although I have seen some removable versions.

Forget spotting traffic...how does the trainee transition to visual
for the landing? Must the instructor land the aircraft? Seems to be
an odd solution.

If money were no object, I would give you a totally blacked out view for the
trainee, and perfect vision out for the instructor.

How to do it? Completely coat all windows with a liquid crystal membrane,
and have it hooked up to blink on and off 30 times per second, (or faster)
for half of each cycle. While current is supplied to the membranes, it turns
black, and would allow no light to enter the cockpit.

Fit the trainee with goggles, sealed on the sides, and with liquid crystal
lenses. It would be timed to be clear, only while the plane's windows were
blacked out. The instructor could see out fine, with no lenses on him/her.

This type of thing is already in use for 3-D movies, with one lens blinking,
then the other, with the film showing a left and right frame.
--
Jim in NC