Sikorsky To Acquire Schweizer Aircraft

It's hard to beat the 1-26 for a fun day on the ridge. If you haven't flown
one for a while, you should go rent one. They are an absolute blast to fly.
It's the most maneuverable ship I've ever flown.

Gary Boggs


"Shaber CJ" wrote in message
...
Heh, I hope Schweizer makes better helicopters than they did gliders.

They do make good helicopters. The 300 are based on the Hughes 269 type
cert.
As for gliders, they seem to have withstood the test of time.

The beauty of the 2-33 in my humble opinion, is that it gets people into the
air cheaply and quickly...is it the best? Well...at getting people into the
air cheaply and quickly AND safely...yeah I'd have to say it is. Someone
else mentioned "leagues" of soaring pilots in the US learning to fly in
2-33's and it probably is the truth. If they were available today new for a
reasonable cost, I'm sure clubs and schools would buy them. Cheap to fly,
cheap to insure, cheap to maintain...

I think what we sometimes forget, is that real soaring is learned almost by
ourselves, over time and through trial and error.Alone in the cockpit, by
trying things, not simply by just being taken out for a ride and being shown
how to soar...we learn in little increments, step at a time, learn a skill,
master it and learn a new one. We compare our performance to others in our
little brotherhood and emulate those better than us in many cases. The 2-33
allows us to get to the point where we can start to learn. The day I was
handed my first pilot certificate, Mr. Roy Beech handed it to me and said
"Now Steve...never stop learning...that's all this really is, a license to
learn"

In short, I think people should quit picking on the 2-33 and recognize that
it is an excellent entry level trainer, that offers its students the ability
to fly it from almost the first minute they touch the stick...and it begins
teaching us almost as quickly, what it wants or needs...I learned in one and
I think if my sons learn to fly, they'll learn in one...and from the first
ride in that grungy old 2-33 I have loved soaring. For me it has never
stopped and if I owe that to the venerable 2-33 then for me...that's enough.

For all it's faults as a sailplane, I have to say, to build a better intial
trainer, that is still being used daily, some 50 years after its inception,
is certainly worth more respect than that which some of the outspoken pilots
on here seem to grant.

It may not have taught me everything I needed to know about soaring, but it
sure taught me to love it...

Steve

Heh, I hope Schweizer makes better helicopters than they did gliders.

For many years, visionary U.S. pilot/designer/builder Dick Schreder
(of HP-series fame) lobbied to allow flaps in the Standard Class. So
it was ironic when, on the first day of the first U.S. 15 Meter
National Soaring Championships in 1976 in Bryan, Ohio (Dick's home
airport), Les Horvath won the task flying a U.S.-built all-metal
sailplane with flaps: the Schweizer 1-35A!

My father's first glider was--as is still the case for many pilots
today--a Schweizer 1-26. His next was a 1-23B, a factory-modified
version of that series built, as I recall, for the World Championships
in 1952. I soloed in a 2-22 and am old enough to remember how much
better than that was the 2-33 when it first arrived at our club.

You'd have to work hard to get me back into a Schweizer now for
anything except a biennial flight review. But, as others have noted,
Schweizer's mainstream gliders have an enviable record for safety and
longevity...and holding their value.

At 53, I'm too old to offer the excuse that I didn't realize how much
I missed something until it was gone. So I hope that those workhorse
2-33s, 1-26s, etc.,--and the company and its people who served the
American market so well for so many years--are still around for a long
time to come.

Chip Bearden

Pete Reinhart wrote:
Well now,
It seems to me that if you are truly an excellent instuctor, it shouldn't
make a lot of difference what you're flying to teach in.

If you were a truly excellent instructor, you would realize how much the
trainer affects what you can teach. The other problem, of course, is
most of us aren't truly excellent instructors, just as most of us aren't
truly excellent pilots. So, we have things like automatically connecting
controls to make it easier for us to do the right thing. I've flown in
2-33s and instructed in Blaniks, and I know a 2-33 would make it much
harder for me to prepare a student for the glider I hope he/she will
purchase for post-licence flying. I don't care how good you are as an
instructor, you are still limited by the student's ablity to learn (in
general) and what you can demonstrate in particular (glider limitations).

That is, if you are teaching people to fly rather than just operate a
perticular kind of aircraft. There is something to learn from every flight
no matter what it is in. I am not comfortable in the back seat of a 2-33
anymore and I hven't taught in many years, but I admire the 2-33 greatly for
what it is and what it does. I've not done any x-c in one but I know people
who have and it's true that they are a pain to de rig in an off field
landing but so what.

"So what" is big problem. A hard to derig and retrieve glider really
discourages a student from even contemplating cross-country unless he
can be sure of landing at airports for an aero retrieve, and the low
performance means it is impractical to stay within reach of airports.
Practically speaking, it means most students won't take a 2-33 away from
the home airport.

They do the job they were designed for admirably IMHO.

I agree, but the job requirements have changed in the 40 years since
they were designed. It is not a criticism of the Schwiezers to say their
40 year old design is no longer the best choice!

As for retarding the sport, how many glider pilots would there be now if it
weren't for the ready availibility of a functional 2-33? We have two of them
in our club and they are rarely unflyable: our Twin Astir has been down for
maintenance over six months in the preceding year, and it's not a delicate
machine.
"Course I'm not selling anything and I don't have the opinion that only a
european glider is worthy of my effort to fly it.

I don't have anything to sell and I don't have the opinion that only a
European glider is worthy of my effort to fly it, but I still echo
Robert's comments. Please stick with responding to what a person says
instead of disparaging motives you can only speculate about.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Schweizer continues to provide good and timely engineering support for
all Schweizer glider owners and operators - at least they have up
until now, I don't expect that will change. The prices for their parts
and engineering drawings may be considered high, but that is normal
because of the limited supply and cost to fabricate.

It is to their credit that they did not abandon the owners of the
aircraft they manufactured, on which they probably made little or no
profit.

While some may note that they have some sort of regulatory obligation
to support their aircraft, in my experience they have exceeded that
requirement a number of times. Others may have had a different
experience.

I hope support for the gliders will continue under the new ownership,
and I have no reason to believe it will change.

Jim


wrote in message ...
Heh, I hope Schweizer makes better helicopters than they did gliders.

You'll probably be able to buy the manufacturing rights for the 2-33 on
ebay soon.

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
Pete Reinhart wrote:
Well now,
It seems to me that if you are truly an excellent instuctor, it
shouldn't
make a lot of difference what you're flying to teach in.

If you were a truly excellent instructor, you would realize how much the
trainer affects what you can teach. The other problem, of course, is
most of us aren't truly excellent instructors, just as most of us aren't
truly excellent pilots. So, we have things like automatically connecting
controls to make it easier for us to do the right thing. I've flown in
2-33s and instructed in Blaniks, and I know a 2-33 would make it much
harder for me to prepare a student for the glider I hope he/she will
purchase for post-licence flying. I don't care how good you are as an
instructor, you are still limited by the student's ablity to learn (in
general) and what you can demonstrate in particular (glider limitations).

Agree to some extent.

That is, if you are teaching people to fly rather than just operate a
perticular kind of aircraft. There is something to learn from every
flight
no matter what it is in. I am not comfortable in the back seat of a 2-33
anymore and I hven't taught in many years, but I admire the 2-33 greatly
for
what it is and what it does. I've not done any x-c in one but I know
people
who have and it's true that they are a pain to de rig in an off field
landing but so what.

"So what" is big problem. A hard to derig and retrieve glider really
discourages a student from even contemplating cross-country unless he
can be sure of landing at airports for an aero retrieve, and the low
performance means it is impractical to stay within reach of airports.
Practically speaking, it means most students won't take a 2-33 away from
the home airport.

Partially true,but it's part of the game and rigging/de-reigging is part of
the game. You can say the same thing about most of the 2seaters currently
used for training, that is, they dicourage landing anywhere they can't be
towed out of because they are such a pain to take apart and put together.

They do the job they were designed for admirably IMHO.

I agree, but the job requirements have changed in the 40 years since
they were designed. It is not a criticism of the Schwiezers to say their
40 year old design is no longer the best choice!

As for retarding the sport, how many glider pilots would there be now if
it
weren't for the ready availibility of a functional 2-33? We have two of
them
in our club and they are rarely unflyable: our Twin Astir has been down
for
maintenance over six months in the preceding year, and it's not a
delicate
machine.
"Course I'm not selling anything and I don't have the opinion that only
a
european glider is worthy of my effort to fly it.

I don't have anything to sell and I don't have the opinion that only a
European glider is worthy of my effort to fly it, but I still echo
Robert's comments. Please stick with responding to what a person says
instead of disparaging motives you can only speculate about.

--I was entirely responding to what he said and I disagree with the tone
of his comments; it is also my privilege to speculate on whatever I care to.
Cheers!
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

I recall gazing at a particularly cherry looking 2-33
at Price, Utah a few years ago..completely reskinned
and new upholstery and paint. Something about the
N-number seemed familiar, I checked my log-book...I
had soloed in it as a 14 year old in 1968 at the old
Sky Sailing in Fremont, Ca.

I suspect this thread may continue to re-occur for
another 30 years, for better or worse. Because I don't
thing you can wear the things out, and their replacements
sure are not cheap.

"Pete Reinhart" wrote in message ...
Well now,
It seems to me that if you are truly an excellent instuctor, it shouldn't
make a lot of difference what you're flying to teach in.

I started my flight training in the T21 and Capstan but soloed in a
2-33. As I student I did not think that the 2-33 held me back in any
way. I was soon able to progress via the 1-26 to flying my gold and 2
diamonds in a Std Jantar.

As an instructor I found the 2-33 to be limiting. Perhaps its most
serious problem is the lack of visibility from the rear seat which
makes it unsafe to thermal with other gliders unless the front seat
pilot is experienced enough to maintain separation.

I normally leave a thermal if I see a 2-33 about to join. Earlier
this year I stayed and was nearly run down.

Andy

Damned right. I want to drive the price down low enough that I can
make a profit selling them to aluminum recycling plants.

As soon as they learn how to recycle epoxy and fiberglass the PWs will
go too.

Robertmudd1u wrote:

Do you feel the 2-33 has caused your progress in soaring to be less than it
would have been if you had learned in something else,...

As a CFIG for over 30 years and with time in almost every model of trainer
produced in that time span, I have to answer "yes" to this question. The 2-33s
not only retards the individual progress but also the progress of the sport in
general.

In my case, not so. If it weren't for the 2 x 2-33s and the 1-26,
my club wouldn't have had money to buy 5 seats in other gliders.

Without the five seats, and the business they give him, the
tow pilot would have moved away a long time ago to a golfing
resort.

And then, no tows for the rest of the glass ships...

More tows always = better. I seldom fly the 2-33 (I prefer
the Blanik because I don't generally do primary
training). But I'm very happy those 5 seats fly all the time
because it keeps our tuggie happy, and therefore our
tow rates down.
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA