Mechanical Vario

Owain Walters wrote:
Because while the electric is flailing around the mechnical
gives indications that match what is happening with
a timed average.

If your electric is "flailing around", that suggests a problem in the
pneumatic connections or the vario settings. For example, I set my
Cambridge 302 for a relatively fast audio response (~ 1.3 second
response), but a slower needle response (1.7 second response - similar
to a good mechanical vario). The averager (~ 20-30 second response)
gives a climb rate in excellent agreement to the actual climb rate,
though this can be checked easily only in very smooth thermals.

These three different responses give me a feel for detecting, centering,
and ultimately deciding when to leave a thermal.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

I agree with Kirk as far as the 'useful' info is concerened.
I have a Sage mechanical (thanks kirk) as the mechanical
backup to my SN10. I find that the Mechanical gives
me a good indication of whats happening outside with
air as it is compensated and gust filtered very well,
and the SN10 gives me a very fast response and allows
me to center quicker and stay there. In other words
when I hear an audio response to lift while cruising
I slow down and glance at the sage and determine whether
or not it is worth making a turn or moving on. The
Sage gives me a better avgerage of what I just flew
into than the SN10. The SN10 gives me a instant responce
that is to short of a time frame to tell if it is
a gust or continued lift. I would like to have a 9volt
audio back up connected to the sage in case of power
failure, but not enough room in the panel or is
there?


At 14:54 25 September 2007, Kirk.Stant wrote:

Which leads to an interesting point - it isn't so much
the actual
reading on the vario that is important, as the ease
of using the datapresented to climb more efficiently.
So the hole 'accuracy' argument is a bit ridiculous.
If it is really sensitive, it overreacts to gusts.
If it is highly damped, it's an averager. That's why
I want the audio, to let my brain (and butt) figure
out the gusts from the surges and center accordingly.
Tough while staring at a needle on a mechanical that
hasn't been looked at much before, after the needle
on the ubervario MK 69 falls off...

Once upon a time, there was such a thing----an electric audio attachment for
a pneumatic/mechanical vario. Or perhaps it was just plumbed in the
pneumatic lines. Adjustable for volume and threshold. It was a little black
box that didn't need to be in the panel at all. Perhaps you can find a used
one somewhere.
--
Hartley Falbaum

"Cliff Hilty" wrote in message
...
I agree with Kirk as far as the 'useful' info is concerened.
I have a Sage mechanical (thanks kirk) as the mechanical
backup to my SN10. I find that the Mechanical gives
me a good indication of whats happening outside with
air as it is compensated and gust filtered very well,
and the SN10 gives me a very fast response and allows
me to center quicker and stay there. In other words
when I hear an audio response to lift while cruising
I slow down and glance at the sage and determine whether
or not it is worth making a turn or moving on. The
Sage gives me a better avgerage of what I just flew
into than the SN10. The SN10 gives me a instant responce
that is to short of a time frame to tell if it is
a gust or continued lift. I would like to have a 9volt
audio back up connected to the sage in case of power
failure, but not enough room in the panel or is
there?


At 14:54 25 September 2007, Kirk.Stant wrote:

Which leads to an interesting point - it isn't so much
the actual
reading on the vario that is important, as the ease
of using the datapresented to climb more efficiently.
So the hole 'accuracy' argument is a bit ridiculous.
If it is really sensitive, it overreacts to gusts.
If it is highly damped, it's an averager. That's why
I want the audio, to let my brain (and butt) figure
out the gusts from the surges and center accordingly.
Tough while staring at a needle on a mechanical that
hasn't been looked at much before, after the needle
on the ubervario MK 69 falls off...

The Crossfell did work OK but the scaling was off, like it
never ever
showed more than 1 m/s

The Crossfell in my RS-15 (glider now sold) gave 32 years
of reliable service. The Crossfell was retired in perfect
working condition. There was a rotary switch
that changed the scale to 3x or 5x, I forget exactly which.
Yours may have been set or stuck in expanded scale.

Btw, mine read in feet per second. My mechanical backup was in
meters per second.
Meanwhile, over the radio everyone was talking about how many
knots of lift they were in. ;-)

and it would show down when I was going up.

Yeah, that's an indication that something was amiss.

--
Regards,
Doug


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

One thing that bugs me about my mechanical (a winter) is that it
always over states the lift, which is important when deciding to take
a thermal or not. The damn thing generally tells me 6 knots, when it
is only 3-4 steady on the averager ! I need the re-paint the face
plate :-)


Perhaps you have too large of a capacity bottle on it.

Putting a smaller capacity on it will lower the readings on you
Winter.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

On Sep 25, 1:12 pm, "HL Falbaum" wrote:
Once upon a time, there was such a thing----an electric audio attachment for
a pneumatic/mechanical vario. Or perhaps it was just plumbed in the
pneumatic lines. Adjustable for volume and threshold. It was a little black
box that didn't need to be in the panel at all. Perhaps you can find a used
one somewhere.

thats what i would really like.

On Sep 25, 4:51 pm, wrote:
thats what i would really like.

I think what you're looking for is a Piep audio. There were a lot of
them about in the 1960s and 1970s. Very simple and reliable. Two knobs
(volume and threshold), two hose connectors (static and capacity), and
a plug for +12DCV and ground. They have fairly low restriction, so you
can plub it in series with a mechanical vario without problem. They
seem to like a one-pint flask, but they're not particularly picky. I
had one for ten years and really liked it.

I bet if you ask around among the old-timers in your area you'll find
somebody with one in the bottom of a box of junk. It'll probably still
have the Graham Thompson sticker on it.

Thanks, Bob K.

wrote in message
ps.com...
On Sep 25, 1:12 pm, "HL Falbaum" wrote:
Once upon a time, there was such a thing----an electric audio attachment
for
a pneumatic/mechanical vario. Or perhaps it was just plumbed in the
pneumatic lines. Adjustable for volume and threshold. It was a little
black
box that didn't need to be in the panel at all. Perhaps you can find a
used
one somewhere.

thats what i would really like.


Surely some one out there has an old Piep 2 Audio Vario that they are
willing to part with. (Or, maybe the newer Winter model.)

I gave away my last one a couple years ago.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

On Sep 25, 8:16 pm, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Sep 25, 4:51 pm, wrote:

thats what i would really like.

I think what you're looking for is a Piep audio. There were a lot of
them about in the 1960s and 1970s. Very simple and reliable. Two knobs
(volume and threshold), two hose connectors (static and capacity), and
a plug for +12DCV and ground. They have fairly low restriction, so you
can plub it in series with a mechanical vario without problem. They
seem to like a one-pint flask, but they're not particularly picky. I
had one for ten years and really liked it.

I bet if you ask around among the old-timers in your area you'll find
somebody with one in the bottom of a box of junk. It'll probably still
have the Graham Thompson sticker on it.

Thanks, Bob K.

Yes, the Piep was a nice gadget. I also flew with one for many years--
it was my first audio vario--and liked it. When electric varios became
ubiquitous in the U.S. (mostly Cambridge in those days), we sold it.
If you can find a working one, it's a cheap, simple way to add audio
to most mechanical varios. IIRC, the current drain was very low, too.
This was back in the days when we all had Bayside BEI-990 radios and a
set of batteries (Everready 560?) needed charging only a few times a
season. That sounds crazy as I type this. Does anyone else remember if
this was true?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

Piep audio was made and sold through Winter in Germany but that was some
time ago.....I actually bought the very last ones they had probably 5-6
years ago...maybe longer....and had some repaired by them about the same
time ...but they said then no more parts existed for these..Another Winter
first instrument that faded from view but was really very interesting at the
time was the Stollfarhtgaber, actually the first Speed-to-fly
variometer/airspeed indicator all-in one....all done mechanically and
pneumatically with no need for volts of any kind...these too and parts for
them are no longer available
Funny as we seem to advance towards more sophisticated do-everything
electronic gadgets how we look back on what worked then and would still work
today with a lot less time setting up, reading manuals and sorting things
out on RAS..... I never remember having to have all these conversations and
technical workshops on how to wind or smoke a barograph and never once had
the software or PC link or lack of a serial port miss a turnpoint done on a
Kodak.....)
All in the way of technology...and to many a giant leap sideways )
So while many might claim an electronic vario is a must for a back-up I
still personally prefer a mechanical running on a probe...it to me also
shows to me what I feel in the flight more naturally than any electronic
one.
tim

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


"Bob Kuykendall" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 25, 4:51 pm, wrote:
thats what i would really like.

I think what you're looking for is a Piep audio. There were a lot of
them about in the 1960s and 1970s. Very simple and reliable. Two knobs
(volume and threshold), two hose connectors (static and capacity), and
a plug for +12DCV and ground. They have fairly low restriction, so you
can plub it in series with a mechanical vario without problem. They
seem to like a one-pint flask, but they're not particularly picky. I
had one for ten years and really liked it.

I bet if you ask around among the old-timers in your area you'll find
somebody with one in the bottom of a box of junk. It'll probably still
have the Graham Thompson sticker on it.

Thanks, Bob K.