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#1
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
Hi
I have recently acquired SZD-55. The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul |
#2
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
I can not directly talk about the 55.
I have a 27 which had a sticky problem. I simply isolated, (disconnect the links from the stick) Fortunate, I did not have to go further, as I discovered that the 2 bearings, that control the pitch were kaput. In any case the above procedure should apply for isolating any sort of excessive friction or bad bearings. You did not say if it was in pitch or lateral control. If lateral control is an issue you should have friends lift the wingtips and operate the stick under bending load while on the ground. Udo Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. *The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. *As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. *Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. *The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. *I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. *Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul |
#3
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
On Apr 20, 7:10 am, Paul B wrote:
Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul Hi Paul, I am anew SZD-59 owner and it also has a lot of friction in the aileron circuit, but this is a known quality in the 59 not a defect. The 59's ailerons are very heavy due to control circuit friction, with no load, and naturally get much MUCH stiffer with increasing airspeed. It is an acro ship though, and it could have been intentional to reduce over-stressing tendencies, but it seems rather extreme when actually experienced. I have little 55 experience, but it would not be the first Polish ship with heavy ailerons if it turns out to be a normal condition, (as opposed to damaged bearings and such) so I am curious as to the answers and solutions, short of redesigning major components. If it's as simple as a combo of strategic felt/uhmw/ teflon/etc then I'm all for it. About the aileron droop, most ships have some sort of dip like that while the ailerons are unloaded, but as soon as they are aerodynamically loaded they should (assuming this adjustment is correct) be in perfect cord with the rest of the wing when held neutral. many people have tried to "fix" their sagging ailerons, much to the detriment of the ship's performance, and is most likely a calculated/built in feature. That said however, always get somebody smarter than you (definitely smarter than me ) to look at anything in doubt. Polish repair/maintenance manuals are usually pretty specific on such matters as well for that matter... Paul Hanson |
#4
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
On Apr 20, 4:14*pm, sisu1a wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:10 am, Paul B wrote: Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. *The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. *As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. *Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. *The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. *I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. *Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul Hi Paul, I am anew SZD-59 owner and it also has a lot of friction in the aileron circuit, but this is a known quality in the 59 not a defect. The 59's ailerons are very heavy due to control circuit friction, with no load, and naturally get much MUCH stiffer with increasing airspeed. It is an acro ship though, and it could have been intentional to reduce over-stressing tendencies, but it seems rather extreme when actually experienced. I have little 55 experience, but it would not be the first Polish ship with heavy ailerons if it turns out to be a normal condition, (as opposed to damaged bearings and such) so I am curious as to the answers and solutions, short of redesigning major components. If it's as simple as a combo of strategic felt/uhmw/ teflon/etc then I'm all for it. About the aileron droop, most ships have some sort of dip like that while the ailerons are unloaded, but as soon as they are aerodynamically loaded they should (assuming this adjustment is correct) be in perfect cord with the rest of the wing when held neutral. many people have tried to "fix" their sagging ailerons, much to the detriment of the ship's performance, and is most likely a calculated/built in feature. That said however, always get somebody smarter than you (definitely smarter than me ) to look at anything in doubt. Polish repair/maintenance manuals are usually pretty specific on such matters as well for that matter... Paul Hanson- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The sagging ailerons are explained it the rigging manual that is in the maintenance section of your flight manual. The 55 has a builtin -2.5dig. set in each side. See Fig 1 page 31.. As for them being heavy? In the technical service manual para 2.2.7. Parmissible friction in the control system. Aileron 0.2 +/- 1.0 daN ( 0.44 +/- 2.2 lbs.) I would look for a bad bearing in the linkages. I feel that the ailerons on my ship are very light. |
#5
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
Thanks Udo, that's where I was heading with wing tips to simulate
flight loads, I was just trying to find out if this is normal for the type. Not sure yet how to apply bending loads to a single wing in order to check if the problem is specific to one side only, but certainly worth a try. Cheers Paul Udo wrote: I can not directly talk about the 55. I have a 27 which had a sticky problem. I simply isolated, (disconnect the links from the stick) Fortunate, I did not have to go further, as I discovered that the 2 bearings, that control the pitch were kaput. In any case the above procedure should apply for isolating any sort of excessive friction or bad bearings. You did not say if it was in pitch or lateral control. If lateral control is an issue you should have friends lift the wingtips and operate the stick under bending load while on the ground. Udo Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. �The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. �As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. �Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. �The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. �I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. �Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul |
#6
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
On Apr 21, 9:14 am, sisu1a wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:10 am, Paul B wrote: Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul Hi Paul, I am anew SZD-59 owner and it also has a lot of friction in the aileron circuit, but this is a known quality in the 59 not a defect. The 59's ailerons are very heavy due to control circuit friction, with no load, and naturally get much MUCH stiffer with increasing airspeed. It is an acro ship though, and it could have been intentional to reduce over-stressing tendencies, but it seems rather extreme when actually experienced. I have little 55 experience, but it would not be the first Polish ship with heavy ailerons if it turns out to be a normal condition, (as opposed to damaged bearings and such) so I am curious as to the answers and solutions, short of redesigning major components. If it's as simple as a combo of strategic felt/uhmw/ teflon/etc then I'm all for it. About the aileron droop, most ships have some sort of dip like that while the ailerons are unloaded, but as soon as they are aerodynamically loaded they should (assuming this adjustment is correct) be in perfect cord with the rest of the wing when held neutral. many people have tried to "fix" their sagging ailerons, much to the detriment of the ship's performance, and is most likely a calculated/built in feature. That said however, always get somebody smarter than you (definitely smarter than me ) to look at anything in doubt. Polish repair/maintenance manuals are usually pretty specific on such matters as well for that matter... Paul Hanson Hi Paul Yes I have found a number of references to 59 heavy ailerons, not so much for the 55. The sagging ailerons is my fault, I have missed it in the manual, a poster later in this thread has pointed me to it. Cheers Paul |
#7
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
- Show quoted text - The sagging ailerons are explained it the rigging manual that is in the maintenance section of your flight manual. The 55 has a builtin -2.5dig. set in each side. See Fig 1 page 31.. As for them being heavy? In the technical service manual para 2.2.7. Parmissible friction in the control system. Aileron 0.2 +/- 1.0 daN ( 0.44 +/- 2.2 lbs.) I would look for a bad bearing in the linkages. I feel that the ailerons on my ship are very light. Hi Thank you for pointing me to the correct page on the manual. The 2.5deg translate to a bit over 5mm which is pretty much what it is. I am assuming that the permissible forces are quoted when stationary, but that is not my problem. The aileron only load up in flight. Essentially the stick never returns to the centre by itself, when cruising with the the stick in the centre, I can tap it pretty hard and it does not budge. I am encouraged to hear that ailerons are light, so I should be able to get it fixed. Cheers paul |
#8
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
Did you check the clearance between ailerons and wing (spanwise) under load?
Bert "pb2525" wrote in message ... - Show quoted text - The sagging ailerons are explained it the rigging manual that is in the maintenance section of your flight manual. The 55 has a builtin -2.5dig. set in each side. See Fig 1 page 31.. As for them being heavy? In the technical service manual para 2.2.7. Parmissible friction in the control system. Aileron 0.2 +/- 1.0 daN ( 0.44 +/- 2.2 lbs.) I would look for a bad bearing in the linkages. I feel that the ailerons on my ship are very light. Hi Thank you for pointing me to the correct page on the manual. The 2.5deg translate to a bit over 5mm which is pretty much what it is. I am assuming that the permissible forces are quoted when stationary, but that is not my problem. The aileron only load up in flight. Essentially the stick never returns to the centre by itself, when cruising with the the stick in the centre, I can tap it pretty hard and it does not budge. I am encouraged to hear that ailerons are light, so I should be able to get it fixed. Cheers paul |
#9
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
Hi Bert
No I did not, but I will add it to the things to check. However, the problem seems to be friction, rather then anything else. The reason I say that is that it takes more force to start the stick moving, then it is to keep it moving (static friction requires more force to overcome then sliding friction). Cheers Paul On Apr 21, 11:19 pm, "Bert Willing" bw_no_spam_ple...@tango- whisky.com wrote: Did you check the clearance between ailerons and wing (spanwise) under load? Bert "pb2525" wrote in message ... - Show quoted text - The sagging ailerons are explained it the rigging manual that is in the maintenance section of your flight manual. The 55 has a builtin -2.5dig. set in each side. See Fig 1 page 31.. As for them being heavy? In the technical service manual para 2.2.7. Parmissible friction in the control system. Aileron 0.2 +/- 1.0 daN ( 0.44 +/- 2.2 lbs.) I would look for a bad bearing in the linkages. I feel that the ailerons on my ship are very light. Hi Thank you for pointing me to the correct page on the manual. The 2.5deg translate to a bit over 5mm which is pretty much what it is. I am assuming that the permissible forces are quoted when stationary, but that is not my problem. The aileron only load up in flight. Essentially the stick never returns to the centre by itself, when cruising with the the stick in the centre, I can tap it pretty hard and it does not budge. I am encouraged to hear that ailerons are light, so I should be able to get it fixed. Cheers paul |
#10
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Excessive friction in the aiteron circuit in SZD-55
On 20 apr., 16:10, Paul B wrote:
Hi I have recently acquired SZD-55. *The glider was manufactured in 1996 and has some 450 hrs. *As far as I can tell the glider was maintained very well by German workshop. *Whilst I was aware that the 55 has quite a heavy stick, I have only flown one other, this one seems to require quite a force to move the stick whilst in flight. *The friction force on the ground is negligible. Whilst I found the glider great to fly, responsive etc., the force required to move the stick becomes tiring after a while. *I also find that I tend to "overshoot" small corrections, static friction requiring more force to overcome compared to sliding friction. *Has anyone had similar experience and if so how could it be overcome. Also I have noticed that when the stick is at dead centre, both ailerons are deflected down by about 3mm (1/8"). Any help appreciated. cheers Paul Hello, I own one SZD 55, Ser No 006. The deflection of both ailerons downwards is normal and is also described in tehnical instructions . My control stick runs VERY smoothly. Best Regards, Marko Kovac, Slovenia |
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