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  #231  
Old June 29th 07, 01:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Montblack
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Posts: 972
Default Gasohol

("David Lesher" wrote)
Since fuel injected cars took over; IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same,
save the uniform on the attendent.



Attendant? :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesoro
Tesoro's "fuel terminal" (in Roseville, MN) has pumps, and no building -
just credit card payment boxes. It's the only place in the Twin Cities I've
been able to find 87 OXY-Free. The other 'far-and-few-between' Non-OXY
pumps, around town I've seen, are premium.


Paul-Mont


Ads
  #232  
Old June 29th 07, 04:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Ernest Christley
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Posts: 199
Default Gasohol

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message


Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.



Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated.


And about 15 years ago, the operators at the storage facilities in
Greensboro, NC were fined heavily for leaking fuels into ground water.
They tried to claim they didn't know it was happening.

Disk jockeys at the time were making fun of the fact that they pump
would meter out gas to the hundredth of a gallon, but they couldn't keep
track of the thousands that were pouring into the groundwater. 8*)

Greensboro is my hometown.
  #233  
Old June 29th 07, 04:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Jose
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Posts: 897
Default Gasohol

The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.


Is there no diffusion at the boundaries?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #234  
Old June 29th 07, 05:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
David Lesher
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Posts: 224
Default Gasohol

Jose writes:


Is there no diffusion at the boundaries?



There is some. How much is complex. It depends on what the two products
are, the rate, and a big issue, is the line kept tight?

By tight I mean, was it running non-stop at the same backpressure the
whole time? If the line went up & down in rate because they added pumps
or swung to a different tank, then there is a longer [time] or broader
[linear feet of product] mix region.

Some lines actually used spheres between, but they bring their own
problems...

For a real mess; picture a midline booster pump, only used for some
products. You must keep track of what product is now in the booster
station line section before you restart. No fair dumping Diesel or Kero
into the gas going by.... but the opposite is OK. [Too much gas in the
distillate is Not Allowed, but a bbl or 3 in a 100,000 bbl tank is no big
deal.]


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #235  
Old June 29th 07, 10:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Mike Isaksen
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Posts: 242
Default Gasohol


"David Lesher" wrote
Some lines actually used spheres between, but they bring their own
problems...


A little further OT,... I've watched a lot of heavy #6 (needs to be heated
to pump) unloaded at the offshore platform. When the tanker is empty, we pig
the pipe and backfill with #2. The methods seem crude to the observer, but
the results are exact enough even for the accountants.


  #236  
Old June 29th 07, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default Gasohol


"Mike Isaksen" wrote

A little further OT,... I've watched a lot of heavy #6 (needs to be heated
to pump) unloaded at the offshore platform. When the tanker is empty, we
pig the pipe and backfill with #2. The methods seem crude to the observer,
but the results are exact enough even for the accountants.


Care to explain a little more, for the unfamiliar among us?

Pig the pipe?

Backfill with #2? What is that?

Why is it possible to be considered as crude, and why is it accurate?
--
Jim in NC


  #237  
Old June 30th 07, 02:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
David Lesher
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Posts: 224
Default Gasohol

"Morgans" writes:


"Mike Isaksen" wrote

A little further OT,... I've watched a lot of heavy #6 (needs to be heated
to pump) unloaded at the offshore platform. When the tanker is empty, we
pig the pipe and backfill with #2. The methods seem crude to the observer,
but the results are exact enough even for the accountants.


Care to explain a little more, for the unfamiliar among us?


Pig the pipe?


Backfill with #2? What is that?



#6 Bunker is one step up from road tar. It's what's left over when you
take all the good stuph out at the refinery.

It's CHEAP, so BIG ships burned it. But it is virually solid when
cold. So first it must be heated to pump. Remember WWII movies about
"bringing another boiler on line"? They used handheld Kerosene torches
to bootstrap the process; then waste steam from the boiler..

#2 is Fuel Oil; slight heavier than #1 aka Kerosene. (Diesel is #2
with added goodies.) If they left #6 in the line, they'd be SOL
as it cooled. So they use thinner stuff to displace it.

A pig is a scraper. You run it down a line to scrape gunk off the
walls. It's pushed by the line flow. There are several types: A poly pig
is a GIANT Tylonol capsule. A conventional pig is a disk [picture an old
LP..] the ID of the line, with a gasket around the edge. The center hole
has a shaft trailing back with wire brushes articulated from it; they're
spring-loaded outward to scrape the wall.

You pig the line while pushing Kero or Fuel Oil; the dirt settles into
the destination tank bottom...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #238  
Old June 30th 07, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt,rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Mike Isaksen
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Posts: 242
Default Gasohol


"David Lesher" wrote ...
..... (snipped pipeline shop talk about bunker fuel) ......


Very nice explainations David, better than I could have done on my best day!


 




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