argh -- flight plan routes

"jsmith" wrote in message
news

Doesn't always work.
You can pick up your clearance but be held for release.
Happened to me this weekend at when trying to depart KMWO (Middletown OH).
We received our clearance prior to startup, were told to call back for
release when ready to depart, and taxied to the departure end of the
runway. We called back for release from Rwy 05 and were advised that there
was an aircraft ten miles out on the approach to Rwy 23 to the airport.
Winds were 060 at 7kts. After the inbound aircraft went missed, we called
for release and were advised that there was a second aircraft now inbound
on the 23 approach.
We could have requested a VFR departure and gotten out immediately, but
instead elected to wait for the first aircraft to arrive. Little did we
know ATC would slip another aircraft inbound while we waited. The worst
part of this was there was a VFR aircraft behind us who had to wait
because there was not enough room on the taxiway to go around us.


What type aircraft were you flying and what type was the VFR aircraft behind
you? The runway is 100' wide, there should have been plenty of room for you
to allow the VFR aircraft to taxi past you and depart. Nothing prevents you
from taxiing on the runway briefly.

I have not tried this. I fly out of a field (PAO) where I get my
clearance from ground control, when I call for taxi instructions. I've
never called them with the engine off, saying "hey, I'll just sit here
and call back for taxi when I understand this clearance." Could try it.
Usually, there is no need, as another poster mentioned, there will
always be a "hold for release" during which I'll be sure to have time
to persue my charts leisurely.

My CFII actually had us shut down in the runup area once or twice, as
we were told we'd be waiting 20 minutes or so. I thought that it was
not allowed to shut down in a movement area, but he thought otherwise.
We debated it, but I could not find the reg.

I think an interesting twist on the route clearance discussion is that
we all tend to do most of our instrument training and fooling around in
fair weather, which in the SF Bay Area, means a northwesterly wind and
all the bay airports are on the "Northwest Plan." However, when the
weather is actually low and you're IFR "for real" because you need to
be, it's much more likely to be the "Southeast Plan." The low-altitude
routings for slow aircraft are definitely different. (don't know about
other a/c).

So, in my last case, I think I was just surprised that even though what
I had filed was something I had seen before, I got something different,
and it was because we had a real howler of a storm cooking. (This was
last Sunday afternoon/evening.)

Specifically, I was coming back to Palo Alto from Fresno. I had filed:
FRES5.ECA V195 SUNOL V334 SJC. What I got was RDR VEC V230 PANOS V485
GILRO. This was about the same distance, but took me over higher
terrain. I had filed for 4000, but this route necessitated 8000, which
was a drag because freezing level was 9000 in the area, and I did
indeed pick up some ice. Interesting how approach is very accomodating
in getting you down lower when you actually *have* ice, though not so
much when you're on the ground telling them that you might get it.

All that said, it was a truly lovely flight. In and out of the clouds
the whole way, night, rain on and off sometimes heavy, visibility
varying from 20 miles to nothing, etc. My pax got a little nervous when
I was using the flashlight to check the wings, but other than that, we
had a great time -- all culminating in a greaser landing at PAO in a
healthy crosswind.

-- dave

wrote:
I have not tried this. I fly out of a field (PAO) where I get my
clearance from ground control, when I call for taxi instructions. I've
never called them with the engine off, saying "hey, I'll just sit here
and call back for taxi when I understand this clearance." Could try
it.

That's what I usually do. Call up, get my clearance, tell the guy
I'll call back for taxi in 5. In cold weather, I'll usually start up
first, mostly to give the engine more time to warm up before I get going.

My CFII actually had us shut down in the runup area once or twice, as
we were told we'd be waiting 20 minutes or so. I thought that it was
not allowed to shut down in a movement area, but he thought otherwise.
We debated it, but I could not find the reg.

Typically, the runnup area is not a movement area. Is there a dashed
line setting it off from the rest of the taxiway? In any case, I
can't think of any regulation which says you can't shut your engine
off, as long as you maintain a radio watch. You could do this by
keeping one radio on, or even with a handheld. Of course, you can
even shut down the radios if the controller gives you permission to go
off the frequency.

Specifically, I was coming back to Palo Alto from Fresno. I had filed:
FRES5.ECA V195 SUNOL V334 SJC. What I got was RDR VEC V230 PANOS V485
GILRO. This was about the same distance, but took me over higher
terrain. I had filed for 4000, but this route necessitated 8000, which
was a drag because freezing level was 9000 in the area, and I did
indeed pick up some ice. Interesting how approach is very accomodating
in getting you down lower when you actually *have* ice, though not so
much when you're on the ground telling them that you might get it.

Keep in mind that while they may be as accomodating as possible, if
there's terrain below you, that limits how accomodating they can be.
The idea of being at the MOCA and picking up ice in a no-ice piston
single doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:46:38 -0500, Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

In the northeast there are 2 sets of "preferred routes".

thera are TEC routes, and there are preferred routes.

Which one you get will often depend on your altitude.

This is one of the more brain-dead things the FAA does. There may be good
reasons why, from an internal FAA point of view, there are two sets of
routes. From a user perspective, however, it's absurd that they're not
folded into a single table.


Well, it's just a case of separate interests, I believe.

The low altitude TEC routes are hammered out by the respective
approach control facilities sitting around a table and (in the
northeast, at least) listening to how the 800lb gorillas (NY,
Philadelphia, Washington, and Boston TRACONs) want to route traffic.

The JFK sector, for example, accepts no handoffs from Bradley going
south, so Bradley has to hand off to PVD, who then hands off to NY,
and the pilot is scratching his head wondering why, especially since
going the other way, the route is completely different. NY gives
their stuff to whomever they want. Somebody launching at an airport
20 miles away from BDL, who happens to be in the NY sector (OXC for
example) gets a completely different route.

The higher altitudes are center's responsibility, and their interests
are totally different.

At least that's how I understand it.

But I think you make a good point - they could all be in one table by
altitude.

wrote:

In the northeast there are 2 sets of "preferred routes".

thera are TEC routes, and there are preferred routes.

Which one you get will often depend on your altitude.

I agree with you that the route you get depends on the altitude (to some
degree), however there must be three "preferred routes" in the Northeast
US: The preferred, the TECs, and the ones you actually receive.

I can tell you based on numerous flights into Boston's Logan that neither
the TEC nor the preferred is what one receives when one files with a TAS of
185 and an altitude of 11,000.

--
Peter













----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

wrote in message
oups.com...
Look up the routes in the back of the AFD. If your exact
destination/origin isn't there, try and figure out what the most
likely route is based on nearby airports. Or access the FAA route
database on-line (http://tinyurl.com/8w2l). It's always nice to hear
"cleared as filed".

I have done both of those, with middling success. The route database
seems rather sparse. For example, it's not got a lot of low altitude
California to California dep/dest pairs other than SFO/LAX.

I do remember there was a website for the old Bay Approach which had a
lot of preferred local and TEC routings. Can´t find it.
-----

Is this the one you are looking for?
http://www.faa.gov/ats/oakaifss/TEC/TECInfo.htm

My CFII actually had us shut down in the runup area once or twice, as
we were told we'd be waiting 20 minutes or so. I thought that it was
not allowed to shut down in a movement area, but he thought otherwise.
We debated it, but I could not find the reg.

Couldn't you just turn off the master switch so the hobbs stops, and
kept the engine running?

Couldn't you just turn off the master switch so the hobbs stops, and
kept the engine running?

Hobbs usually runs on oil pressure. The master wouldn't kill it.
However, I got bitten by an airplane whose hobbs ran on the master. I
turned the master on to get clearances and such before starting the
motor, and noticed the hobbs clicking away with the engine off.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On 1 Apr 2005 20:20:17 -0800, wrote:

My CFII actually had us shut down in the runup area once or twice, as
we were told we'd be waiting 20 minutes or so. I thought that it was
not allowed to shut down in a movement area, but he thought otherwise.
We debated it, but I could not find the reg.

Couldn't you just turn off the master switch so the hobbs stops, and
kept the engine running?


Hobbbs meters are driven by oil pressure.

Not necessarily.
Correctly, it is an oil pressure switch. When oil pressure exceeds a
preset value, the switch closes a contact, permitting current to flow.
On some installations, the Hobbs is wired directly to the DC buss which
is energized when the Master is turned on.
My experience is that High Performance aircraft use the oil pressure
switch and fixed pitch, under 200 hp aircraft use the Master switch.

wrote:
Hobbs meters are driven by oil pressure.