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First glider Nimbus 2 ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 13th 15, 03:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surge
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Posts: 128
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider and I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.

I do realize that a flapped, long winged glider is not the best choice for a low time pilot which is why I will keep the glider in a hangar while I first build up some experience on Grob G102's. My motivation for purchase is because I think the glider matches my checklist for the type of flying I've always wished to do and also because of the opportunity presented which may not come around again. Due to the fact that gliders take ages to sell where I live (slow market), I'd rather purchase something I want to fly for the next 20 years than purchase an intermediate "first glider" that I battle to sell later. There is enough G102 stock available to hire in the transition phase.

My aim in soaring has always been to do medium distance (300-500km), relaxed, cross country flying (armchair ride) so with regards to performance and bang-for-buck it ticks the boxes. I am not interested in competition flying.. I'd much rather cruise around at 160km/h with an L/D of ~40:1 than blast around at 200+ km/h trying to shave precious seconds off a task.
I'd like to know more about the glider's vices or problem areas I need to be aware of.

1. Stall/spin characteristics. How much warning does it give before stalling and does it have any tendency to suddenly drop a wing and spin or can it be considered as one of the docile gliders in the stall/spin category? If it constantly wants to kill me (a pilot issue) I'd rather stay with an Astir and just limit my cross country range.

2. Pitch sensitivity. The glider has an all flying tail (not a 2B or 2C model). How pitch sensitive is it once trimmed in cruise? Is it twitchy/unstable and need constant attention or is it fairly stable and one doesn't have to constantly fight to keep attitude constant?

3. Approach control. How effective are the airbrakes? Are outlandings a challenge with the tail chute? Where I fly there are usually plenty of plowed fields at least 300m long and fairly wide (apparently guarded by farmers with shotguns).

Areas I'm aware of:
- Pitch is sensitive which evidently makes tugging a bit trickier.
- Long wings and cross winds don't play nicely together on takeoff.
- Don't go full positive flap on takeoff as the wing may fly before the tail! :-O
- Roll rate is not snappy and the glider is a bit under ruddered which makes entering thermals a bit more challenging than most 15m ships.
- Long wings and mediocre airbrakes (compared to Astirs) make out landings more challenging/dangerous.
- Heavy wings are not an issue as the glider will be hangared and flown conservatively cross country. The odd retrieve shouldn't be a reason to not fly such an awesome old lady.
- The glider comes with a decent trailer and accessories before someone brings that up.
- All AD's including tail AD applied.
Ads
  #2  
Old March 13th 15, 03:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill D
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 750
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Thursday, March 12, 2015 at 9:11:44 PM UTC-6, Surge wrote:
A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider and I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.

I do realize that a flapped, long winged glider is not the best choice for a low time pilot which is why I will keep the glider in a hangar while I first build up some experience on Grob G102's. My motivation for purchase is because I think the glider matches my checklist for the type of flying I've always wished to do and also because of the opportunity presented which may not come around again. Due to the fact that gliders take ages to sell where I live (slow market), I'd rather purchase something I want to fly for the next 20 years than purchase an intermediate "first glider" that I battle to sell later. There is enough G102 stock available to hire in the transition phase.

My aim in soaring has always been to do medium distance (300-500km), relaxed, cross country flying (armchair ride) so with regards to performance and bang-for-buck it ticks the boxes. I am not interested in competition flying. I'd much rather cruise around at 160km/h with an L/D of ~40:1 than blast around at 200+ km/h trying to shave precious seconds off a task.
I'd like to know more about the glider's vices or problem areas I need to be aware of.

1. Stall/spin characteristics. How much warning does it give before stalling and does it have any tendency to suddenly drop a wing and spin or can it be considered as one of the docile gliders in the stall/spin category? If it constantly wants to kill me (a pilot issue) I'd rather stay with an Astir and just limit my cross country range.

2. Pitch sensitivity. The glider has an all flying tail (not a 2B or 2C model). How pitch sensitive is it once trimmed in cruise? Is it twitchy/unstable and need constant attention or is it fairly stable and one doesn't have to constantly fight to keep attitude constant?

3. Approach control. How effective are the airbrakes? Are outlandings a challenge with the tail chute? Where I fly there are usually plenty of plowed fields at least 300m long and fairly wide (apparently guarded by farmers with shotguns).

Areas I'm aware of:
- Pitch is sensitive which evidently makes tugging a bit trickier.
- Long wings and cross winds don't play nicely together on takeoff.
- Don't go full positive flap on takeoff as the wing may fly before the tail! :-O
- Roll rate is not snappy and the glider is a bit under ruddered which makes entering thermals a bit more challenging than most 15m ships.
- Long wings and mediocre airbrakes (compared to Astirs) make out landings more challenging/dangerous.
- Heavy wings are not an issue as the glider will be hangared and flown conservatively cross country. The odd retrieve shouldn't be a reason to not fly such an awesome old lady.
- The glider comes with a decent trailer and accessories before someone brings that up.
- All AD's including tail AD applied.


I have owned a N2C and I would not recommend it to a pilot without several hundred hours experience in another high performance flapped glider. There are no issues in free flight - in fact the N2C is a very stable bird - but takeoff and landings can be a handful for anyone new to the glider. It sometimes feels like one needs three hands.

The trailing edge air brakes are immensely powerful. I think the full brake 60 kt glide is something like 2:1 so about 4" of air brake handle movement changes the glide from just under 50:1 to 2:1. That takes a little time to get used to.
  #3  
Old March 13th 15, 05:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surge
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Posts: 128
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, 13 March 2015 05:23:49 UTC+2, Bill D wrote:
I have owned a N2C and I would not recommend it to a pilot without several hundred hours experience in another high performance flapped glider.


Wow! That bad.
I found a similar thread with similar advice https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ng/zwO51PdZW00
It's just a pity that access to other flapped gliders is rather limited or expensive in my case.

The trailing edge air brakes are immensely powerful.


The trailing edge brakes were apparently only added in the N2C and are not found in the 2 or 2B.
  #4  
Old March 13th 15, 06:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Posts: 904
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 6:31:41 PM UTC+13, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 13 March 2015 05:23:49 UTC+2, Bill D wrote:
I have owned a N2C and I would not recommend it to a pilot without several hundred hours experience in another high performance flapped glider.


Wow! That bad.
I found a similar thread with similar advice https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ng/zwO51PdZW00
It's just a pity that access to other flapped gliders is rather limited or expensive in my case.


I've never flown a Nimbus, but I've got a fair bit of experience in the first generation Janus, also with flaps and all-flying tailplane.

To be honest, I'm not sure that hours matter that much with these aircraft. You either "get" them or you don't.

I had 75 hours total, 54 hours PIC, when I started flying the Janus. It was new to our club and expensive and they were very protective of it, so I had to do nine dual takeoffs and landings in a variety of weather conditions before they gave me my (pax) rating in it.

I've seen other people, experienced instructors in Grobs with hundreds of hours, who took one or two flights in the Janus and declared they'd never set foot in it again.

I definitely would recommend you to find an early model Janus and do a few dual flights in it before flying the Nimbus (preferably before deciding to buy it), even if you have to travel to do so.
  #5  
Old March 13th 15, 07:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Apart from being a poor choice as a first glider in terms of rigging,
handling and approach control, you would be unlikely to want to stick
with an early Nimbus 2 for many years which would negate the logic
of wanting to buy it in the first place.

As a general point the early generation of GRP flapped gliders really
don't gain much from the flaps relative to slightly later unflapped
gliders - especially those, like the Nimbus, with Wortmann FX- 67
series profiles which are very badly affected by rain and bugs. The
standard class gliders from the LS4, Discus onwards are all seriously
useful, well sorted out gliders.

John Galloway



At 06:10 13 March 2015, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 6:31:41 PM UTC+13, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 13 March 2015 05:23:49 UTC+2, Bill D wrote:
I have owned a N2C and I would not recommend it to a pilot

without
seve=
ral hundred hours experience in another high performance flapped

glider.
=20
Wow! That bad.
I found a similar thread with similar advice

https://groups.google.com/fo=
rum/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/zwO51PdZW00
It's just a pity that access to other flapped gliders is rather limited

o=
r expensive in my case.

I've never flown a Nimbus, but I've got a fair bit of experience in the
fir=
st generation Janus, also with flaps and all-flying tailplane.

To be honest, I'm not sure that hours matter that much with these
aircraft.=
You either "get" them or you don't.

I had 75 hours total, 54 hours PIC, when I started flying the Janus. It
was=
new to our club and expensive and they were very protective of it,

so I
ha=
d to do nine dual takeoffs and landings in a variety of weather

conditions
=
before they gave me my (pax) rating in it.

I've seen other people, experienced instructors in Grobs with

hundreds of
h=
ours, who took one or two flights in the Janus and declared they'd

never
se=
t foot in it again.

I definitely would recommend you to find an early model Janus and

do a few
=
dual flights in it before flying the Nimbus (preferably before

deciding to
=
buy it), even if you have to travel to do so.


  #6  
Old March 13th 15, 08:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surge
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 128
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, 13 March 2015 08:10:53 UTC+2, Bruce Hoult wrote:
I definitely would recommend you to find an early model Janus and do a few dual flights in it before flying the Nimbus (preferably before deciding to buy it), even if you have to travel to do so.


Thanks, that's an excellent suggestion and a privately owned Janus (first one built) is located at the club I fly at.
  #7  
Old March 13th 15, 08:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 904
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 9:00:04 PM UTC+13, John Galloway wrote:
Apart from being a poor choice as a first glider in terms of rigging,
handling and approach control, you would be unlikely to want to stick
with an early Nimbus 2 for many years which would negate the logic
of wanting to buy it in the first place.


Ray Lynskey did.
  #8  
Old March 13th 15, 08:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 904
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 9:20:27 PM UTC+13, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 13 March 2015 08:10:53 UTC+2, Bruce Hoult wrote:
I definitely would recommend you to find an early model Janus and do a few dual flights in it before flying the Nimbus (preferably before deciding to buy it), even if you have to travel to do so.


Thanks, that's an excellent suggestion and a privately owned Janus (first one built) is located at the club I fly at.


By the way, we tried the tail chute on our Janus a few times and then disabled it.

The airbrakes are not all that strong (neither are those in the Duo Discus!), but landing flap plus airbrake together are as effective as the brakes in most other gliders. Plus add in side slip and you've got a massively steep descent. You don't want to do that all the way to the ground, but it will get you down to a normal approach angle and then I'd say recover from the slip by 100 or 150 ft.

I don't think the parachute offers anything more than do the other tools at your disposal -- tools which you can apply and take off repeatedly if necessary.

I don't know how similar the Nimbus is in that regard. I'd suspect pretty similar, but I don't know for sure.
  #9  
Old March 13th 15, 09:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Holroyd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default First glider Nimbus 2 ?

Definately not a first glider.More like a third.
I've had mine(N2 A) for 16 years and love it to bits.You need to lead with
the rudder in turns,which goes against all I was taught regarding
co-ordinating the controls.If you do not it does a very good demonstration
of aileron drag.
I had a set of retro-fitted "Discus" winglets fitted,which improved matters
tremendously.
I went from a Pik 20 B to the Nimbus and was glad of the flapped experience
gained on the Pik.
Definately suggest flapped experience in a Janus.
Also buy a good set of covers;people tend to disappear when it's rigging
time.

A series of flights in an earlyGenerallAt 08:30 13 March 2015, Bruce Hoult
wrote:
On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 9:20:27 PM UTC+13, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 13 March 2015 08:10:53 UTC+2, Bruce Hoult wrote:
I definitely would recommend you to find an early model Janus and do

a
=
few dual flights in it before flying the Nimbus (preferably before
deciding=
to buy it), even if you have to travel to do so.
=20
Thanks, that's an excellent suggestion and a privately owned Janus

(first=
one built) is located at the club I fly at.

By the way, we tried the tail chute on our Janus a few times and then
disab=
led it.

The airbrakes are not all that strong (neither are those in the Duo
Discus!=
), but landing flap plus airbrake together are as effective as the brakes
i=
n most other gliders. Plus add in side slip and you've got a massively
stee=
p descent. You don't want to do that all the way to the ground, but it
will=
get you down to a normal approach angle and then I'd say recover from

the
=
slip by 100 or 150 ft.

I don't think the parachute offers anything more than do the other tools
at=
your disposal -- tools which you can apply and take off repeatedly if
nece=
ssary.=20

I don't know how similar the Nimbus is in that regard. I'd suspect pretty
s=
imilar, but I don't know for sure.



  #10  
Old March 13th 15, 09:15 AM
Skypilot Skypilot is offline
Member
 
First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Feb 2012
Posts: 31
Default

Hi Mate,

I have owned my N2 for 18 months now, I guess I have put about 100hrs on it and flown two comps. The sailplane I owned before this one was a Phoebus C. I did a huge amount of research before I bought mine and the most important advice I got from one of our gliding gods was.

It's a gentleman's conveyance , don't fly stupid speeds and you will catch the gaggle at half climb and leave before them.

My recommendation is to go out and buy it ASAP.

Cheap 18m performance for 20k
Schempp hirth quality
It will fly with a ASW20 LS8 all day as long as you don't go too fast
It will go like a scalded cat if you fill the water tanks. It's a little bit intimidating if you fly it way over gross weight ""I have heard"
The cockpit is huge and comfortable
It's easy to rig by yourself if you have a good single man rigger
You can fit and carry the tips easily by yourself
It's LD will get you home most days
it has a all flying tail plane for less maintenance
You have to think about the launch if you haven't flown flaps before
1 make sure it's lined up properly
2 start off in full negative flap
3 as soon as you have roll control move to positive flap
4 the tail will fly when ready, the book says start with full forward or back but I tend to trim it so that its neutral.
People will run off if they see you starting to rig but I can do it on my own in about an hour if left alone.
The all flying tail plane is a non event, I can fly mine hands off for enough time to get a uridome on, it does get twitchy at 120kts but how often do you really fly at those speeds. I have flown the asw15/Phoebus and the nimbus is easier to fly.
Thermaling is a breeze, I have head all these stories about its hard to turn, yes sometimes you have full rudder and notice it but these are sailplanes not Pitts specials.
The hoteliers are a little painful if it doesn't have the access hatch, if it doesn't the secret is to put your head in the hole and put the safety's in by putting your arm through the steel structure area.

I haven't outlandend mine yet but whilst the airbrakes aren't super powerful you can always hit your touch down point with ease.

My advice is to buy it and only take advice from those who have flown one and have opinions other than ones borne from the web.

I am an instructor and would happily send a pilot out in it as Lang as the had the correct mindset and a good cross country ability. As a rough guess 50-70 hrs with good single seat time. I think sometimes people forget that the legends of our sport flee these things 40 years ago and whilst they will never be as nice as a JS1 or ASG29 you aren't paying $200 k either.

My email is justinjsinclair the usual symbol hotmail.com if you want pics or furrier info

Justin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surge View Post
A Nimbus 2 is on the market which I'm interested in as my first glider and I'd like some feedback from those who've owned or flown one.

I do realize that a flapped, long winged glider is not the best choice for a low time pilot which is why I will keep the glider in a hangar while I first build up some experience on Grob G102's. My motivation for purchase is because I think the glider matches my checklist for the type of flying I've always wished to do and also because of the opportunity presented which may not come around again. Due to the fact that gliders take ages to sell where I live (slow market), I'd rather purchase something I want to fly for the next 20 years than purchase an intermediate "first glider" that I battle to sell later. There is enough G102 stock available to hire in the transition phase.

My aim in soaring has always been to do medium distance (300-500km), relaxed, cross country flying (armchair ride) so with regards to performance and bang-for-buck it ticks the boxes. I am not interested in competition flying.. I'd much rather cruise around at 160km/h with an L/D of ~40:1 than blast around at 200+ km/h trying to shave precious seconds off a task.
I'd like to know more about the glider's vices or problem areas I need to be aware of.

1. Stall/spin characteristics. How much warning does it give before stalling and does it have any tendency to suddenly drop a wing and spin or can it be considered as one of the docile gliders in the stall/spin category? If it constantly wants to kill me (a pilot issue) I'd rather stay with an Astir and just limit my cross country range.

2. Pitch sensitivity. The glider has an all flying tail (not a 2B or 2C model). How pitch sensitive is it once trimmed in cruise? Is it twitchy/unstable and need constant attention or is it fairly stable and one doesn't have to constantly fight to keep attitude constant?

3. Approach control. How effective are the airbrakes? Are outlandings a challenge with the tail chute? Where I fly there are usually plenty of plowed fields at least 300m long and fairly wide (apparently guarded by farmers with shotguns).

Areas I'm aware of:
- Pitch is sensitive which evidently makes tugging a bit trickier.
- Long wings and cross winds don't play nicely together on takeoff.
- Don't go full positive flap on takeoff as the wing may fly before the tail! :-O
- Roll rate is not snappy and the glider is a bit under ruddered which makes entering thermals a bit more challenging than most 15m ships.
- Long wings and mediocre airbrakes (compared to Astirs) make out landings more challenging/dangerous.
- Heavy wings are not an issue as the glider will be hangared and flown conservatively cross country. The odd retrieve shouldn't be a reason to not fly such an awesome old lady.
- The glider comes with a decent trailer and accessories before someone brings that up.
- All AD's including tail AD applied.
 




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