OT-Killing Pop-ups as a webmaster

"Tobias Dussa" wrote in message
...
Sounds like to me that most people have been a little harsh on Jay.

That may be, but IMHO also has nothing to do with whether or not the
criticism is constructive or not (and, BTW, even less with whether or
not the criticism is justified or not).

IMHO, you are wrong. For criticism to be constructive, it not only has to
offer advice as to how things can be done better, it has to do so without
insulting the person being criticized. And by "insulting" I don't mean just
saying that the person is doing it wrong. I mean things like calling the
person ignorant, and using words like "crap" to describe the product of
their efforts.

Martin's "advice" (to pick an example at "random") is FAR from insult-free
and as such, is FAR from being constructive, regardless of how factual it
might be.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" writes:
Sounds like to me that most people have been a little harsh on Jay.
That may be, but IMHO also has nothing to do with whether or not the
criticism is constructive or not (and, BTW, even less with whether or
not the criticism is justified or not).
IMHO, you are wrong. For criticism to be constructive, it not only has to
offer advice as to how things can be done better, it has to do so without
insulting the person being criticized.

Then on this matter we disagree. As I have written in the part of my
posting you have clipped, I totally agree that it is most probably
counter-productive to dress criticism in words that offend the other
person, because that doesn't get you anywhere far. Yet, IMHO, that is
an entire different (yet not at all unimportant!) property of
criticism that has nothing to do with the property of being
constructive or destructive. These two qualities (constructiveness
and wordiness, or whatever you want to call it, I can't think of a
proper word here, sorry) are orthogonal, if you will. Criticism may
be nicely worded, but destructive; similarly, it may be harshly (or
offensively) worded, but constructive. Ideally, one would like nicely
worded _and_ constructive criticism.

And by "insulting" I don't mean just
saying that the person is doing it wrong. I mean things like calling the
person ignorant, and using words like "crap" to describe the product of
their efforts.

We are in agreement that such wording is offensive. (I would advise
everyone not to be insulted by it, though. Makes life a lot easier if
you don't get p-o-ed so quickly. ;-))

Martin's "advice" (to pick an example at "random") is FAR from insult-free
and as such, is FAR from being constructive, regardless of how factual it
might be.

I still think you are mixing up different and unrelated qualities of
criticism. (And, IMHO, factuality is yet another quality that is
orthogonal to the two other qualities I have mentioned above.)

In my opinion, it is a very helpful (and in some instances quite
necessary) virtue to be able to take criticism even if it is offensive
or insulting. In fact, even the most offensive criticism might (and
hopefully does!) contain insights that are valuable, and by
disregarding the entire criticism, you are throwing away that
insight. You may not like it, but it sometimes does pay to listen to
a person that is not as friendly as you'd like her to be.

But, as always, YMMV. I realize us German-speaking folks are
considered an unfriendly bunch, because we tend to be rather
unfriendly-sounding even when we don't mean it, so that probably
doesn't help the discussion at hand, either...

Cheers,
Toby.
--
You know you've landed gear-up when it takes full power to taxi.

I use an ad blocker and never get any ads, popups, animations, music etc.

Jay Honeck wrote:

I changed some of the metafiles (or "meta tags") in my website this
afternoon, emphasizing "hotels" more. I did this in an effort to get search
engines to "see" our site more clearly, and (hopefully) move us up a few
notches in the "results".

Well, something worked. Within an hour I had acquired a "pop-up" ad that
now shows up every time I open my website. (I assume you ALL see this,
right?) It appears to be "keying" on the "hotels" meta tag? (See it -- and
hopefully our site -- at www.AlexisParkInn.com )

As most of you know, I'm learning HTML on the fly here -- so excuse the
potentially dumb question, but: Is there anything I can do from the
webmaster's side to eliminate this kind of "pop-up parasite"?

Thanks in advance...

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

I did web stuff for something like 10 years and learned (the hard way...)
about browser compatibility.



I'm running IE 6.0.2800.1106 and www.AlexisParkInn.com looks and works fine
for me.

How about the other people here? Is it compatiable with your browser?

Jay Honeck wrote:

you compare one Microsoft crap with another Microsoft crap. Microsoft is
NOT standard

Wow. Talk about tilting at windmills. (That's a "Don Quixote" reference,
in case it doesn't translate well....)

Everything starts at the beginning. I'm sure (bringing us back to remotely
on-topic) that people thought of manned powered heavier-than-air flight the
same way.

But the fact is that we are getting more and more clients/potential clients
hot behind our avoidance of MSFT products. It may be small, yet, but more
and more people are awakening to the fact that there are alternatives, and
that it would be tough to find one worse.

The score is 98 to 2, and you still think Microsoft hasn't won the OS war?

And all attempts at manned heavier-than-air manned flight failed. Until one
didn't.

You are, at best, incurably optimistic.

This would appear to be the right place for it.

- Andrew

I believe that is the latest version.


"Chuck" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message
et...

I did web stuff for something like 10 years and learned (the hard
way...)
about browser compatibility.



I'm running IE 6.0.2800.1106 and www.AlexisParkInn.com looks and works
fine
for me.

How about the other people here? Is it compatiable with your browser?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:RVMtb.212725$HS4.1823321@attbi_s01...
... and produces another one producing more or less crap - and he is
proud
of it.

Well, Martin -- I speak with hundreds of hotel guests, most (like,
99.9999%)
of whom know nothing about HTML, or any of the so-called HTML "standards"
to
which you (and others) refer.

The number one thing I hear about our website is that it is so much easier
to navigate and is actually chock-full of real information about the hotel
than most commercial sites. Too many sites are nothing but "fluff", and
cool graphics. I have tried to avoid that, in favor of stuff that
potential
hotel guests might actually be interested in seeing.

I write off this whole debate over HTML editors and technique as
nothing
more than the "DOS vs Windows" debate, redux. Ten (or was it 15 now?)

nope. there is a language with *rules* (you know, such things like an
ADIZ
in aviation). Frontpage ignores most of them.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. You, like we former DOS-heads once did,
seem to view these "rules" as inviolate and unbreakable. This, my friend,
will be your ultimate downfall.

DOS had rules, too. Windows first worked within them, then ignored them
and
made new ones.

Where is DOS now?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

I couldn't agree more with your comments about HTML. Who gives a flying fig
what the internal code is....you're not selling internal code. Your website
looks great and the wife and I are interested in coming all the way out
to Iowa City to see the town and Inn based solely on the excellent sales
job of the website. We live in the L.A. area and believe me, visiting Iowa
City wasn't on our priority list for vacation sites. But the next time
we're
driving the U.S., which we do every couple of years for a vacation now
that the kids are out of college and on their own, we're going to give your
place a try....again, based only on the very informative, user friendly and
visually attractive web site. Hell, I hope the internal code structure
does suck!!! That gives me confidence that someday I could buy a copy of
Front Page and do a much more modest site just to hang our vacation pictures
on LOL!!

Best Regards,

Jim

Chuck wrote:

How about the other people here? Is it compatiable with your browser?

Netscape 4.79. Most of the stuff is lots better than the last time we did this
exercise. The renovation photos page comes up blank, but will appear correctly
if I hit "reload" or transition elsewhere and back up into it.

George Patterson
They say nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is, death
doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.

But, as always, YMMV. I realize us German-speaking folks are
considered an unfriendly bunch, because we tend to be rather
unfriendly-sounding even when we don't mean it, so that probably
doesn't help the discussion at hand, either...

Don't worry, Toby.

With Grandparents named "Schmidt" and "Honeck", you *know* I'm used to harsh
German-speaking folk! :-)

Your points are well made, and well taken.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

At 600,000+ unique hits a month and no complaints about page problems, must
be doing something right.

Bob Noel wrote:

rrect.

You've been doing this since '97 and you still don't know what
valid HTML is?

--
Bob Noel