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#101
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Silly controller
Newps wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "Christopher C. Stacy" wrote in message ... When he gave you the clearance for the approach, did he say "Maintain VFR?" If not, you were really IFR. No. You're really IFR when you hear "Cleared to..." How about this: Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at 5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right." ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000." Did the controller issue an IFR clearance? No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain VFR. So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance? I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the requested ILS to that airport. Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it. I only do full-press IFR, and have for a long time since I hung up the old CFI-I. |
#102
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Silly controller
Roy Smith wrote:
Sam Spade wrote: Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at 5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right." ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000." Did the controller issue an IFR clearance? Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then you're IFR. On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like. If he was VFR, I think it just sounds like flight following talk. |
#103
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Silly controller
Roy Smith wrote: Sam Spade wrote: Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at 5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right." ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000." Did the controller issue an IFR clearance? Nope. What you want to hear is "cleared to the Chino airport". Then you're IFR. On the other hand, "maintain 4,000" sure sounds pretty IFR-like. Nope, you requested a practice approach, thereby agreeing to be vectored/sequenced. |
#104
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Silly controller
Sam Spade wrote: No, you started out VFR and you have to inform ATC if you can't maintain VFR. So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance? When you're VFR. You asked to be vectored/sequenced for an approach. Just how do you think he's going to do that? I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the requested ILS to that airport. Then that was wrong. An IFR clearance must start with "cleared to..." |
#105
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Silly controller
So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance?
It never was an IFR clearance. It may be a cardinal IFR altitude, but being at an altitude isn't the same as a clearance. Jose -- The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#106
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Silly controller
Christopher C. Stacy wrote: "Robert M. Gary" writes: The instruction "Cleared for the ILS runway 23 at Foobar maintain 2000 until established" contains "cleared", a route (which is even a charted IFR procedure), an altitude, and a clearance limit (landing Foobar airport, or executing the published missed approach procedure). How is that not an IFR clearance? I think it is, unless the controller adds the words "maintain VFR". When I want a practice approach and the controller fails to say "VFR", I add it back in to try and make sure, like: "Cherokee 97R cleared for the ILS 29 maintain VFR". No, to be IFR you must have a clearance limit. The clearance must clear you to some specific thing (like an intersection or most commonly, a destination). So a common popup IFR approach clearance sounds like... "Cleared to the Foobar airport via radar vectors, fly heading 123, maintain 2000 until established cleared for the ILS runway 22 foobar". (Notice the "cleared to Foobar airport at the begining showing its an IFR clearance. -Robert, CFII |
#107
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Silly controller
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:FhrIg.196$c07.193@fed1read04... How about this: Pilot: "SoCal Approach, Piper 1234B is 10 west of Paradise on top at 5,500. Request ILS approach to Chino 26 Right." ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000." Did the controller issue an IFR clearance? No. |
#108
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Silly controller
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:8UrIg.204$c07.37@fed1read04... So, when did "descend to and maintain 4,000" no longer constitute an IFR clearance? It never did. I haven't done a pop-up in a long time, but when I did do them, no controller said, "Cleared to the Chino Airport." that was obvious by the fact I was very near Chino and the controller gave me a heading for the requested ILS to that airport. Perhaps this stuff has changed since I last did it. Nope. |
#109
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Silly controller
("Jose" wrote)
"Tracy", being an uncontrolled airport in NorCal's area, wouldn't have any strips at all :-) Just because it's uncontrolled doesn't mean they don't have strips. In fact, there's an entire thread about a destination in NY with its own strips. I think that's way out of control. I laughed. :-) Montblack |
#110
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Silly controller
In article ,
Jose wrote: ATC: "34B squawk 2133...34B radar contact, fly present heading for the Chino ILS 26 Right. Descend and maintain 4,000." Did the controller issue an IFR clearance? I've had the situation where I've contacted SoCal approach just like that, VFR, for an approach into STS (which was IFR with nighttime fog). SoCal, into STS? Hamish |
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