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#11
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:02:21 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in :: Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR. There's nothing stopping VFR pilots from filing an IFR flight plan, but the FAR requirement* for the PIC to be instrument rated and current. * http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.2&idno=14 § 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations ... (e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds: (1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required), and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown; But http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14 § 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests. ... (b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless— (1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted under VFR or IFR? |
#12
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"mindenpilot" wrote in message ... Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR. This would further add to the congestion. Well, nothing except the FARs 61.3 (e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds: |
#13
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Limited discrimination is not restricted under AIP terms... this is for a
set period during periods of abnormally high traffic... there are various ways to restrict traffic flow... if this were a permanent restriction.. then there may be arguments. This happens all the time when a major aviation convention is in a certain area. AOPA, SnF, NBAA, etc. Another way to restrict traffic is to require Prior Approval or a reservation slot for arrival. Some aircraft can be guaranteed a parking spot.. others must only drop pax, gas and go.. BT As you can readily discern, the cause of the closure is apparently economically based (as opposed to safety based) due to limited aircraft parking facilities available on the airport. My question is, why should VFR operations be banned in favor of IFR operations if discrimination is forbidden under AIP agreement contract terms? If Friedman Memorial Airport has not received any AIP funding within the last 20 years, my question is moot, but that's unlikely. The prime qualification for employment as an airport manager is the ability to successfully write AIP grant proposals. |
#14
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wrote in message ups.com... Can they close an airport to all VFR traffic? This is what they're doing at Friedman Memorial Airport at Hailey, Idaho [HLE]. Link to the article: http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...&ID=2005102705 Instrument conditions prevail? Class B is sorta IFR like... |
#15
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"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message news:KmU9e.2946$Xg.1033@okepread02... "mindenpilot" wrote in message ... Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR. This would further add to the congestion. Well, nothing except the FARs 61.3 (e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds: It looks like the FAR you listed specifically says "IFR" or "weather less than VFR". If the weather is VFR (as I stated) then you only need a safety pilot, who does not need to be instrument rated. Otherwise, how do you train for IFR? Always have an instrument rated safety pilot? Adam N7966L Beech Super III |
#16
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As you can readily discern, the cause of the closure is apparently economically based (as opposed to safety based) due to limited aircraft parking facilities available on the airport. My question is, why should VFR operations be banned in favor of IFR operations if discrimination is forbidden under AIP agreement contract terms? If Friedman Memorial Airport has not received any AIP funding within the last 20 years, my question is moot, but that's unlikely. The prime qualification for employment as an airport manager is the ability to successfully write AIP grant proposals. On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:06:48 -0700, "BTIZ" wrote in XtV9e.15984$%c1.13283@fed1read05:: Limited discrimination is not restricted under AIP terms... I was unable to locate the document(s) governing AIP terms, but I did find the section I had in mind (included below). It doesn't seem to address what is happening in Idaho however. this is for a set period during periods of abnormally high traffic... Yes. That's what the article indicates. there are various ways to restrict traffic flow... if this were a permanent restriction.. then there may be arguments. Are you familiar with other incidents of similar traffic restrictions using IFR flight as the criterion? This happens all the time when a major aviation convention is in a certain area. AOPA, SnF, NBAA, etc. When an airport is unable to accommodate the traffic, ATC has various methods of restricting the flow, but I've never seen the requirement for an IFR flight plan in VMC used to govern traffic flow. Another way to restrict traffic is to require Prior Approval or a reservation slot for arrival. Some aircraft can be guaranteed a parking spot.. others must only drop pax, gas and go.. BT ================================================ United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION SUBTITLE VII - AVIATION PROGRAMS PART B - AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT AND NOISE CHAPTER 471 - AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT SUBCHAPTER I - AIRPORT IMPROVEMENT Sec. 47101. Policies (a) General. - It is the policy of the United States - (1) that the safe operation of the airport and airway system is the highest aviation priority; .... 9) that artificial restrictions on airport capacity - (A) are not in the public interest; (B) should be imposed to alleviate air traffic delays only after other reasonably available and less burdensome alternatives have been tried; and (C) should not discriminate unjustly between categories and classes of aircraft; ... |
#17
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"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14 § 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests. ... (b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless- (1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted under VFR or IFR? That's the beautiful part of instrument training. If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on a trip. You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC. One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC. Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that. Adam N7966L Beech Super III |
#18
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in :: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14 § 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests. ... (b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless- (1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted under VFR or IFR? That's the beautiful part of instrument training. If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on a trip. You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC. One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC. Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that. Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or VFR regulations? That is my point. Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing this. |
#19
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wrote in message ups.com... Can they close an airport to all VFR traffic? This is what they're doing at Friedman Memorial Airport at Hailey, Idaho [HLE]. Link to the article: http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...&ID=2005102705 I'm obstinate enough to make a "precautionary landing due to rough engine" just to tweak these idiots... Too bad I don't make it to Idaho very often. If someone found the real story, I'd wager that it comes down to the fact that IFR aircraft, particularly turbines, put a lot more $$ in FBO pockets than the typical light aircraft that is VFR only. This is probably another chapter in the ongoing story where FBO's and airport authorities make life difficult and/or expensive for light aircraft in order to run them off busy airports in order to increase the number of corporate aircraft based at the field. We've got at least 2 airfields in the Atlanta area that are suffering from this plight. The corporate guys don't realize that having all the light aircraft owners around the field at odd hours and on weekends is one of the things that reduces or eliminates the need for more formal and expensive airport security. KB |
#20
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote: "Larry Dighera" wrote in message .. . http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14 § 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and certain flight tests. ... (b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless- (1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted under VFR or IFR? That's the beautiful part of instrument training. If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on a trip. You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC. One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC. Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that. If neither of you are instrument rated and current you would still be afoul of 61.3 and you *cannot* fly it IFR. Non-IMC practice approaches are flown VFR, thus the requirement for the safety pilot to look out for other traffic and ensure you don't violate cloud separation, etc. Which also answers Larry's question regarding simulated flight - it's VFR. If I had a nickel for every time approach has told me "Maintain VFR at all times at or above two thousand five hundred until established, cleared GPS 23 approach"... |
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