tail ballast antifreeze

I've read the past posts on using ~20% methanol to prevent tail ballast
from freezing. I have these questions three:

1) Is methanol in any way corrosive to rubber parts/seals?

2) Is there a reason not to use ethanol if methanol can't be found?

3) Does a glider flying in the Great Basin area in July, between 15k
and 18k for 7+ hours, really need tail ballast anti-freeze?

~ted/2NO

wrote:

3) Does a glider flying in the Great Basin area in July, between 15k
and 18k for 7+ hours, really need tail ballast anti-freeze?

~ted/2NO

It's not necessary, Ted!
Just load it to MGW and your desired C/G and have fun.
Jim

JS has a lot more experience than I flying the Great Basin, but in the FWIW
category, the winds aloft forecast will have the forecast temperatures
aloft.

I just got a forecast of the DUATS net for a VGT to RNO flight for tomorrow
morning and the forecast temps at 12K MSL is +09 and at 18K MSL at -09.

Freezing level forecast is:
Freezing Level
Idaho ... 14,000 feet to 15,500 feet.
Montana ... 12,500 feet to 13,000 feet eastern. 13,000 feet to 14,500 feet
remainder.
Wyoming ... 13,500 feet to 15,500 feet.
Nevada ... 15,000 feet to 16,000 feet.
Utah ... 15,000 feet to 16,000 feet.
Colorado ... 13,500 feet to 15,500 feet.
Arizona ... 15,000 feet to 16,000 feet.
New Mexico ... 14,000 feet to 15,500 feet.

So if you plan on staying too long above 15KMSL, mmmmmm

BT

"JS" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:

3) Does a glider flying in the Great Basin area in July, between 15k
and 18k for 7+ hours, really need tail ballast anti-freeze?

~ted/2NO

It's not necessary, Ted!
Just load it to MGW and your desired C/G and have fun.
Jim

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:kdlog.15261$_c1.2009@fed1read05...

So if you plan on staying too long above 15KMSL, mmmmmm

BT


It puzzles me that so many glider pilots cannot solve basic problems without
resorting to alcohol or booze!! Duh, simply use boiling water for ballast
and you can safely (?) extend your stay above the freezing level by at least
10 minutes .

I know, I know, you're probably asking yourself, "Why didn't I think of
that?".

all the best,
--
bumper
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

"bumper" wrote in message
news

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:kdlog.15261$_c1.2009@fed1read05...

So if you plan on staying too long above 15KMSL, mmmmmm

BT


It puzzles me that so many glider pilots cannot solve basic problems
without resorting to alcohol or booze!! Duh, simply use boiling water for
ballast and you can safely (?) extend your stay above the freezing level
by at least 10 minutes .

I know, I know, you're probably asking yourself, "Why didn't I think of
that?".

all the best,
--
bumper
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."



Of course, you could put an electric heater in the fin tank. That would
give you yet another reason to install two 25AH (14V?) batteries.

bildan

wrote:
I've read the past posts on using ~20% methanol to prevent tail ballast
from freezing. I have these questions three:

1) Is methanol in any way corrosive to rubber parts/seals?

2) Is there a reason not to use ethanol if methanol can't be found?

3) Does a glider flying in the Great Basin area in July, between 15k
and 18k for 7+ hours, really need tail ballast anti-freeze?

~ted/2NO

I'm betting there is a really good reason, but why not use automotive
antifreeze? Is it not compatible with composites?

I'm betting there is a really good reason, but why not use automotive
antifreeze? Is it not compatible with composites?

Very bad for the environment.

bumper
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."

around here we call that "Nevelling"
after Neville Robinson who perfected the technique
BT

I got this from our resident physicist and weather guru:

snip
From NHTSA on methanol in fuels:

"Methanol will attack and corrode certain metals, such as magnesium and
aluminum. Additionally, the corrosion products of aluminum and methanol
will precipitate out of the liquid fuel and clog filters and fuel
injectors. For this reason, it is recommended that metals such as
stainless steel and carbon steel be used in methanol fuel systems and
fuel delivery systems. Methanol will also attack many common
elastomeric materials, like rubber, polyurethane, and most plastics.
Elastomers with high fluorine content and Teflon have been proven to be
compatible with methanol."

.... Ethanol is probably safer.
/snip

Thanks Mike!

~ted/2NO
"Jack Daniels for my V2C!"

wrote:
I got this from our resident physicist and weather guru:

snip
From NHTSA on methanol in fuels:

"Methanol will attack and corrode certain metals, such as magnesium and
aluminum. Additionally, the corrosion products of aluminum and methanol
will precipitate out of the liquid fuel and clog filters and fuel
injectors. For this reason, it is recommended that metals such as
stainless steel and carbon steel be used in methanol fuel systems and
fuel delivery systems. Methanol will also attack many common
elastomeric materials, like rubber, polyurethane, and most plastics.
Elastomers with high fluorine content and Teflon have been proven to be
compatible with methanol."

... Ethanol is probably safer.
/snip

Thanks Mike!

~ted/2NO
"Jack Daniels for my V2C!"

Food graded PROPYLENE GLYCOL might be a good choice...it is less
effective then the ethylene glycol (very nasty stuff)...15% solution is
good down to 10 deg. F.I just don't know if it will react with
fiberglass....propylene glycol is used in cosmetics, food processing,
hospitals, etc. But also keep in mind that adding a kitchen salt into
fresh water will bring the freezing point down....my 2 cents....