MOA??

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what
is ATC going to do?

Mitty wrote:

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what
is ATC going to do?

They won't clear you into a hot MOA unless they can provide separation. Usually,
they cannot so your only option is to cancel when they refuse to provide an IFR
clearance. Having said that, file and see what happens.

"Mitty" wrote in message
...

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?


One way or another they'll keep you out of it. Assuming you're traveling
some distance they'll probably do nothing at departure. The departure
controller may have no knowledge of the MOA and issue a clearance that
enters it. But if it's hot as you approach it you'll get a new clearance
limit.

I'd agree that IFR is safer or at least provides more utility.

Passing thru various MOAs flying from RDU to LAL last weekend, some of
the MOAs were hot but apparently the hot parts were smaller than the
published limits. The controllers cleared me and others thru parts that
must have been cool. At the same time, they kept traffic out of certain
sections of the same MOA. We were all trying to avoid storms.


Mitty wrote:
I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?

"Mitty" wrote in message
...
I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?

ATC owns the MOA. If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the
MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. File IFR and
follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go
anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use
airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. ATC
will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you
even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

Which MOA is it?

"John Doe" wrote in message
link.net...

ATC owns the MOA.


In what way?



If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.


No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.



File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you,
file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not
exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at
any time.


Not under IFR.



ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).


They're not on ATC frequency.



Which MOA is it?


Falls 1.

Airport is KBCK, Falls 1 MOA. Central Wisconsin, Green Bay sectional.

Actually, the advice I previously received here (from a couple of controllers
IIRC) was correct: If the MOA is hot, ATC will not let you in IFR. If you
can't cancel and go in VFR, you are SOL. In the KBCK case, I would consider
going in VFR because it is very close to the edge of the MOA at one point.

To double check, I called Center on the phone. The admin phone for both Chicago
and Minneapolis centers is the same, so I ended up talking to a controller at
Chicago. He said the same thing as above.

Re the rest of your thoughts, that is all new to me. I have flown near a few
hot MOAs while on an IFR clearance and have never heard Center talking to the
military guys. I have also never read any idea that ATC would be working with
the military guys. Is this just your theory?

I have read a couple of articles on MOAs from the military viewpoint and the
gist was that they are really scared of civilian traffic because they are moving
so fast relative to us. In fact, I think in some cases we are such slow movers
that their targeting radar suppresses our returns.

On 7/5/2005 7:36 PM, John Doe wrote the following:
"Mitty" wrote in message
...

I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.

Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is
hot, what is ATC going to do?


ATC owns the MOA. If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the
MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. File IFR and
follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go
anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use
airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. ATC
will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you
even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

Which MOA is it?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"John Doe" wrote
ATC owns the MOA.

In what way?

If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude
deconflict from you under you're through.

No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA.

File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you,
file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not
exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at
any time.

Not under IFR.

ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid
you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working).

They're not on ATC frequency.

Which MOA is it?

Falls 1.

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in
general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is
that never true? Thanks.

Dave

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.


My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.

ok, I'll bite.

Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ?

On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following:
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5...

Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs
in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the
MOA. Is that never true? Thanks.



My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs.