Youth in soaring, and anything

My own gliding interest started at age 9 when my father sent me up on
a demo ride in a 2-33.

Dad passed along his interest in aviation to me by doing stuff with
me. Building flying models etc and visiting glider ports and getting
a ride now and then.

Took up RC model activity from age 9-35.

In the process of being a middle class earner it took until age 35
that I could finally realize my dream of personal aviation and get a
glider rating.

It was a combination of time, money and guilt of spending money on
something just for me, not the family.

I also lived in Canada at the time where nearly ALL glider clubs are
non-profit (relatively cheap)

Now I live in the US where a large portion of the gliding resources
are commercial and costly.
Our local club charges almost as much for a tow as the local
commercial operations.

So I am now in my late 40's I am exploring motorgliders and own a
couple, now that the fruits of my labors are finally cashing in and I
have no familly to support.

The cost for young people in our club is prohibitive at $63 a tow for
at most an 75min flight, due to the time blocks for club gliders, plus
a monthly memebership of $25-$50.

Even at these rates the club barely survives so its not due to
profiteering....its just an expensive hobby that your familly can only
watch from the ground.

I think its just the economics that only the middle aged folks and
older can support such an expensive sport.

Right now times are tough, so all expensive sports and hobbies are at
risk of downsizing.

The new generations are not being introduced to affluent lifesyles of
the Baby Boomers anymore, its a tighter economy and hobbies are taking
a big hit.

Its a question of survival, not prosperity these days, with dreams
being tucked away for another decade while this particular uncertainty
of the future slowly resolves itself.


Ray

On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, Brad wrote:
On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:





On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As in all things, there needs to be a degree of balance. Our club runs
our Pawnee all day with training going all day.
BUT- when "rush hour" starts(single seaters mostly) the second tug
goes in service and we drop back to one training glider for a couple
hrs, then back to 2 for balance of the day.
Once in a while, someone will grumble about training making them wait
a few extra minutes for a tow. That's when I remind them that they
were the guy in the trainer waiting for rush hour to tail off not so
long ago.
Most operations need a balance of both top remain financially viable.
Nobody comes out to soar on the cloudy days, but the training and
rides still go on.
Everybody needs to feel that get to be at the front of the line
sometime.
If soaring clubs and operators tried to survive on just soaring tows
on good days, all but a few would die and the cost for the rest would
be enough to scare a lot of them off.
And- ya gotta replace the ones that drop out or die off.
UH

The plural of anecdote is not "data," nor is it "trend," but here's my
story: I earned my private glider ticket at age 24, in 2008. I'd
wanted to start since I was in my early teens -- my father flew SEL
back in the 70s and I grew up around airports, airplanes, and pilots.
The first time I had the money to pursue training, though, was 2008.
I joined the nearest soaring club shortly after earning my ticket, and
they do a lot to make flying fun and affordable, but pressure from
school/work (I'm a doctoral student working in a research lab) means I
can't fly nearly as much as I'd like.

I imagine that other folks who weren't raised around flying would be
even harder to get interested/keep interested in the face of the other
commitments. I -want- to do this, and I have trouble making time for
it, and affording it. It would be a tough sell to someone in my age
group if he/she didn't already love aviation, I think.

Ryan

On Dec 17, 2:03*pm, wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, Brad wrote:





On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As in all things, there needs to be a degree of balance. Our club runs
our Pawnee all day with training going all day.
BUT- when "rush hour" starts(single seaters mostly) the second tug
goes in service and we drop back to one training glider for a couple
hrs, then back to 2 for balance of the day.
Once in a while, someone will grumble about training making them wait
a few extra minutes for a tow. That's when I remind them that they
were the guy in the trainer waiting for rush hour to tail off not so
long ago.
Most operations need a balance of both top remain financially viable.
Nobody comes out to soar on the cloudy days, but the training and
rides still go on.
Everybody needs to feel that get to be at the front of the line
sometime.
If soaring clubs and operators tried to survive on just soaring tows
on good days, all but a few would die and the cost for the rest would
be enough to scare a lot of them off.
And- ya gotta replace the ones that drop out or die off.
UH

On Dec 17, 5:08*pm, Ryan Spicer wrote:
The plural of anecdote is not "data," nor is it "trend," but here's my
story: I earned my private glider ticket at age 24, in 2008. I'd
wanted to start since I was in my early teens -- my father flew SEL
back in the 70s and I grew up around airports, airplanes, and pilots.
The first time I had the money to pursue training, though, was 2008.
I joined the nearest soaring club shortly after earning my ticket, and
they do a lot to make flying fun and affordable, but pressure from
school/work (I'm a doctoral student working in a research lab) means I
can't fly nearly as much as I'd like.

I imagine that other folks who weren't raised around flying would be
even harder to get interested/keep interested in the face of the other
commitments. I -want- to do this, and I have trouble making time for
it, and affording it. It would be a tough sell to someone in my age
group if he/she didn't already love aviation, I think.

Ryan

On Dec 17, 2:03*pm, wrote:



On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, Brad wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As in all things, there needs to be a degree of balance. Our club runs
our Pawnee all day with training going all day.
BUT- when "rush hour" starts(single seaters mostly) the second tug
goes in service and we drop back to one training glider for a couple
hrs, then back to 2 for balance of the day.
Once in a while, someone will grumble about training making them wait
a few extra minutes for a tow. That's when I remind them that they
were the guy in the trainer waiting for rush hour to tail off not so
long ago.
Most operations need a balance of both top remain financially viable.
Nobody comes out to soar on the cloudy days, but the training and
rides still go on.
Everybody needs to feel that get to be at the front of the line
sometime.
If soaring clubs and operators tried to survive on just soaring tows
on good days, all but a few would die and the cost for the rest would
be enough to scare a lot of them off.
And- ya gotta replace the ones that drop out or die off.
UH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So we seem to agree that at least for the US, the biggest road-block
for attracting and retaining young people is cost. This begs the
question: what are the costs? If I read of aero-tow fees of $63, I am
not surprised at all that young folks - even those with a steady job -
are turned off. Therefore, we must find ways of lowering the cost per
flight - at least for the initial part of the training. Any ideas?
Ever heard of a thing called 'Winch' - a machine that reliably
delivers a two-seat trainer to better than pattern altitude for a
fraction of the operating cost of a tow plane? Ever wondered how it is
possible for European clubs to train their students for far less than
over here (US)? (Please, don't give that crap about the government
paying for their planes, etc.!)
There are some really encouraging developments ongoing in the US to
make winches more affordable for clubs. Besides lowering the costs per
flight, a winch launch provides a certain 'Wow-Factor'; something the
younger crowd craves. I realize that not everybody will push his water-
laden $180k glider into the winch queue but perhaps there are many
pilots perfectly happy to do a couple of launches and maybe catch a
thermal for a local flight. This is the segment not served by the club
that charges $50+ per launch but is worth retaining!
I see the winch as an integral part of the solution.
My 2 cents worth ....
Uli Neumann

GM wrote:

So we seem to agree that at least for the US, the biggest road-block
for attracting and retaining young people is cost.


I think the biggest road block is time. If you are working 40 to 50
hours per week with a family, you don't have much time for any hobby or
sport. Those who can afford gliding probably work even more.

We need to recruit middle-aged types whose kids have left home.

On Dec 18, 10:50*pm, GM wrote:
On Dec 17, 5:08*pm, Ryan Spicer wrote:



The plural of anecdote is not "data," nor is it "trend," but here's my
story: I earned my private glider ticket at age 24, in 2008. I'd
wanted to start since I was in my early teens -- my father flew SEL
back in the 70s and I grew up around airports, airplanes, and pilots.
The first time I had the money to pursue training, though, was 2008.
I joined the nearest soaring club shortly after earning my ticket, and
they do a lot to make flying fun and affordable, but pressure from
school/work (I'm a doctoral student working in a research lab) means I
can't fly nearly as much as I'd like.

I imagine that other folks who weren't raised around flying would be
even harder to get interested/keep interested in the face of the other
commitments. I -want- to do this, and I have trouble making time for
it, and affording it. It would be a tough sell to someone in my age
group if he/she didn't already love aviation, I think.

Ryan

On Dec 17, 2:03*pm, wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, Brad wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As in all things, there needs to be a degree of balance. Our club runs
our Pawnee all day with training going all day.
BUT- when "rush hour" starts(single seaters mostly) the second tug
goes in service and we drop back to one training glider for a couple
hrs, then back to 2 for balance of the day.
Once in a while, someone will grumble about training making them wait
a few extra minutes for a tow. That's when I remind them that they
were the guy in the trainer waiting for rush hour to tail off not so
long ago.
Most operations need a balance of both top remain financially viable.
Nobody comes out to soar on the cloudy days, but the training and
rides still go on.
Everybody needs to feel that get to be at the front of the line
sometime.
If soaring clubs and operators tried to survive on just soaring tows
on good days, all but a few would die and the cost for the rest would
be enough to scare a lot of them off.
And- ya gotta replace the ones that drop out or die off.
UH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So we seem to agree that at least for the US, the biggest road-block
for attracting and retaining young people is cost. This begs the
question: what are the costs? If I read of aero-tow fees of $63, I am
not surprised at all that young folks - even those with a steady job -
are turned off. Therefore, we must find ways of lowering the cost per
flight - at least for the initial part of the training. Any ideas?
Ever heard of a thing called 'Winch' - a machine that reliably
delivers a two-seat trainer to better than pattern altitude for a
fraction of the operating cost of a tow plane? Ever wondered how it is
possible for European clubs to train their students for far less than
over here (US)? (Please, don't give that crap about the government
paying for their planes, etc.!)
There are some really encouraging developments ongoing in the US to
make winches more affordable for clubs. Besides lowering the costs per
flight, a winch launch provides a certain 'Wow-Factor'; something the
younger crowd craves. I realize that not everybody will push his water-
laden $180k glider into the winch queue but perhaps there are many
pilots perfectly happy to do a couple of launches and maybe catch a
thermal for a local flight. This is the segment not served by the club
that charges $50+ per launch but is worth retaining!
I see the winch as an integral part of the solution.
My 2 cents worth ....
Uli Neumann

I agree with Uli. We've launched CAP cadets and Boy Scouts with a
winch and they all like it, a lot. Engaging youth is not as large a
problem as engaging their parents. The daughter of a club member was
in high school Jr ROTC and suggested their squadron take glider
flights. The school board nixed that one as too dangerous. Tucson
Soaring Club at one time had a high school flight training scholarship
program that was wildly successful (though somewhat difficult). It
grew the club from 90-130 members in a short span, but also took the
program coordinator out of soaring (or at least his wife did) and that
ended the program. Somehow you need to make soaring seem as appealing
as varsity sports.

At the ab-initio level, some may take advantage of the SSA Cadet Youth
Scholarships. This can be very productive, especially if used with
the SSA/Chapter Introductory Membership concept.
http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=67...w=blog&id=2027
Oops, only one applicant in 2009.

Those young pilots that work the line, wash gliders, mow grass, and go
on retrieves can get a boost from the Bultman Youth Flight Scholarship
Oops, only one applicant in 2009.

There are some other significant awards looking for applicants also.
Gee, maybe money may not be the big issue.

More successful than all of these types of awards are vibrant youth
programs. I'm told Texas Soaring Association has had two 17yo tow
pilots flying Pawnees in the past four years. You don't find those,
you grow them. From the 2006 SSA convention.
http://www.soaringchapters.org/conve.../tsa_youth.wmv (41m27s,
WMF format, 2nd generation)

Harris Hill Soaring Corporation and Valley Soaring Club both claim
active youth programs.
From the 2003 Northeast Regional Club Seminar (30m37s, WMF format, 3rd
generation)
http://www.soaringchapters.org/semin...ion2_youth.wmv

If you're seeking advice on how to attract and involve youth, you
might ask the following chapters, listed with their SSA Youth Member
count
Caesar Creek Soaring Club 31
Central Indiana Soaring Society 10
Greater Houston Soaring Association 18
Harris Hill Soaring Corporation 29
Mid-Atlantic Soaring Association 34
Sandhill Soaring Club 10
Sky Soaring, Inc 18
Texas Soaring Assn 16
Valley Soaring Club 26

Many have 1-9 youth.

However, 53 of 134 chapters have 0 youth members.

Regards,

Frank Whiteley

Frank, (and others) be kind and trim previous posts, please.

On Dec 19, 12:50*am, GM wrote:
On Dec 17, 5:08*pm, Ryan Spicer wrote:





The plural of anecdote is not "data," nor is it "trend," but here's my
story: I earned my private glider ticket at age 24, in 2008. I'd
wanted to start since I was in my early teens -- my father flew SEL
back in the 70s and I grew up around airports, airplanes, and pilots.
The first time I had the money to pursue training, though, was 2008.
I joined the nearest soaring club shortly after earning my ticket, and
they do a lot to make flying fun and affordable, but pressure from
school/work (I'm a doctoral student working in a research lab) means I
can't fly nearly as much as I'd like.

I imagine that other folks who weren't raised around flying would be
even harder to get interested/keep interested in the face of the other
commitments. I -want- to do this, and I have trouble making time for
it, and affording it. It would be a tough sell to someone in my age
group if he/she didn't already love aviation, I think.

Ryan

On Dec 17, 2:03*pm, wrote:

On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, Brad wrote:

On Dec 17, 11:57*am, bildan wrote:

On Dec 17, 9:44*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 4:08*pm, Uncle Fuzzy wrote:

On Dec 17, 7:22*am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Dec 17, 2:20*pm, wrote:

As you allude- the other easy catch market is the person who now has
their kids launched and wants to go have some fun.
FWIW
UH

There's a slightly younger variant of that, who might therefore be
ensnared slightly earlier: someone
* - with a teenager that is spreading their wings and becoming
* * interested in "the wrong things" (e.g. shopping malls
* - who would like to extend the time that their offspring
* * wants to do something with their father

Worked for me and my daughter, I'm pleased to say!

My $.02
We get a fair number of young people in the under 18 y/o age bracket,
then almost none in the 18 - 25(ish) age group. *I think initial
exposure is a factor, but MONEY is a huge issue. *The very young
people are introduced to soaring (for the most part) by parents or
relatives who also pay for their flying. *By age 18, they're usually
pretty much one their own for flying expenses. It's not until later
(sometimes much later) that they can again afford to get and stay
involved in soaring. *In my case, I always wanted to fly. I just
couldn't afford it until I was in my very late 40's.

Personally I'm not convinced that money is the main reason for the
18-40 hole.
Over here, clubs are much not very far away (less petrol) and winch
launches
are cheap - typically 3 launches or an hour in the air take about 3
hours
work to earn.

I suspect that moving away from home to work/university, the other
gender,
family responsibilities, hours in the week, and other interests are
more significant.

I would also add that "leisure time activities" tend to track the
financial health of the middle class - one that's having a
particularly hard time in this economy. *Soaring tends to do well in
countries with a thriving middle class. *The wealthy want jets, not
gliders. *If they have a Citation, they lust for a 4-engine
Gulfstream. *Lower classes just want affordable health care.

In my neighborhood, numerous couples have their adult children living
with them again - sometimes with their wives and young children. *The
story is that their offspring graduated, started a career, married,
had children, bought a house only to be laid off and lose their house
to a foreclosure. *Some of these young adults really want to fly but
you can see in their eyes they don't think they will ever be able to
afford it.

I don't think the Internet, Facebook etc. has drained off potential
glider pilots - it's is just the only interesting activity they can
afford.

look at all the high end glass for sale on W&W.................is that
a barometer of the financial crisis as well? I do hope that these
sellers have new sailplanes on order, but I wonder who will be buying
those toys up for sale now?

Let's hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and that it
isn't the head lights of a freight train boring down.

In the mean time, I could care less about trying to get more people
interested in soaring, I want to protect what I already have and enjoy
what I and my friends already know is the best damn sport in the
world. What I see now are more students, demo rides and commercial
rides vying for an already small support system. The end result, no
one is happy: long lines on the launch queue, priority given to those
who feel one group of pilots, students/CFIG's need to be pushed to the
front of the line at the expense of those who are strapped in and
ready to go XC, demo rides given priority because "it's for the good
of soaring". No thanks................in an FBO scenario this is
great, they want business and long lines mean business. For a club
that wants to be everything to everybody it doesn't work.

Soaring isn't an inherently selfish sport, but when the WX is good and
the clouds fill the sky altruism goes out the window.

Brad- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As in all things, there needs to be a degree of balance. Our club runs
our Pawnee all day with training going all day.
BUT- when "rush hour" starts(single seaters mostly) the second tug
goes in service and we drop back to one training glider for a couple
hrs, then back to 2 for balance of the day.
Once in a while, someone will grumble about training making them wait
a few extra minutes for a tow. That's when I remind them that they
were the guy in the trainer waiting for rush hour to tail off not so
long ago.
Most operations need a balance of both top remain financially viable.
Nobody comes out to soar on the cloudy days, but the training and
rides still go on.
Everybody needs to feel that get to be at the front of the line
sometime.
If soaring clubs and operators tried to survive on just soaring tows
on good days, all but a few would die and the cost for the rest would
be enough to scare a lot of them off.
And- ya gotta replace the ones that drop out or die off.
UH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So we seem to agree that at least for the US, the biggest road-block
for attracting and retaining young people is cost. This begs the
question: what are the costs? If I read of aero-tow fees of $63, I am
not surprised at all that young folks - even those with a steady job -
are turned off. Therefore, we must find ways of lowering the cost per
flight - at least for the initial part of the training. Any ideas?
Ever heard of a thing called 'Winch' - a machine that reliably
delivers a two-seat trainer to better than pattern altitude for a
fraction of the operating cost of a tow plane? Ever wondered how it is
possible for European clubs to train their students for far less than
over here (US)? (Please, don't give that crap about the government
paying for their planes, etc.!)
There are some really encouraging developments ongoing in the US to
make winches more affordable for clubs. Besides lowering the costs per
flight, a winch launch provides a certain 'Wow-Factor'; something the
younger crowd craves. I realize that not everybody will push his water-
laden $180k glider into the winch queue but perhaps there are many
pilots perfectly happy to do a couple of launches and maybe catch a
thermal for a local flight. This is the segment not served by the club
that charges $50+ per launch but is worth retaining!
I see the winch as an integral part of the solution.
My 2 cents worth ....
Uli Neumann- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Our kids pay $15 to 2000 ft and the 1-26 is free. Their other flying,
such as training, is about 1/2 of regular member. essentially they pay
variable costs for their flying and the regular membership, plus some
income from introductory flights, covers absorption of fixed costs.
Alas, our airport is not suitable for winching.
UH

On Dec 19, 5:50*am, GM wrote:
a winch launch provides a certain 'Wow-Factor'; something the
younger crowd craves.

Definitely.

My daughter's first flight was an aerotow in a DG500. Her reaction:
"it was OK".
Her second flight (same day, different club!) was a winch launch in a
K13.
Her reaction: "Can I do it again?". She was hooked, and remains so.

Money is the easy complaint. I'd guess time is the real answer,
followed by spousal permission. And we have become a risk averse
planet, current culture punishes non-risk averse individuals.