Wacky Tracky

Way to go Matt, looks like you won the sport class in a Ventus up in my old xc stomping grounds. You've got no excuse for not completing that diamond badge this year flying up there lol. Good luck and safe flying. Better hurry up though, I am redoing my badges in an old 1-26, gonna try and complete my diamond in her this year. Only problem being I have to work during the best part of the season june thru aug.

Ok, I think we all made our points. Now will be nice if we all sign our names, as I can't be sure if I know someone by their masked email address (Google will show only the first few letters). Just so we can continue arguing when we meet at the airports

Ramy

Yes, we flew the Stemme from Moriarty to Minden. It's a very
comfortable and economical cruiser, but the acquisition cost ain't
cheap. We burned about 3.2 gph at 16,500' MSL but there's practically
no appreciable baggage space. We stuffed clothes in nooks and crannies
and used plastic grocery bags as out luggage. But it was sure fun! My
wife told me so!!

We'll be flying home tomorrow and it looks like good soaring from Cedar
City to Moriarty. Sunset allowing, I hope to shutdown around the AZ/NM
border and glide home.


On 6/6/2016 9:40 AM, wrote:
There you got Dan, I agree and send my congrads to the xc boys. Did you fly the Stemme up there? How'd it go? My bro is looking at getting one, primarily as an economical little cruiser.
Dan

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Dan, 5J

Sorry Ramy, but I can't agree with your "no excuse" philosophy. If that
works for you, that's fine and its your right. I don't make any excuses
for my choices of equipment. It's my choice. Just that simple.

Having said that, flying from Moriarty to Minden and flying home
tomorrow, I did and will make use of ATC flight following. Should
anything go wrong, and it's really unfriendly territory, ATC will have
my transponder track and we'll be in constant radio communication.
That's real time coverage with the people who have direct communication
with emergency services. I won't need to wait for someone to look at a
website to see if I'm still around and then try to get a rescue under way.

I'm not trying to start an argument, only to show that there are
different ways to approach a situation.


On 6/6/2016 10:10 AM, Ramy wrote:
You all focusing on the convenient and entertainment values of trackers. But the main value is your own safety especially if you are injured, and consideration for your friends and family. What you expect them to do if you don't show up by sundown and no one heard from you? I was in one soaring event when we needed to search for someone who flew without a tracker for 2 days, with sad ending. More recently a friend didn't turn on his tracker and landed out safely after announcing final glide but couldn't notify anyone and had to walk out. We sent a plane to look for him. If you fly cross country in a place where someone will be waiting for you to return by the end of the day, there is no substitute and no excuse to spend $150 per year for a tracker.

Ramy

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Dan, 5J

I forgot to mention... Attached to my parachute harness are a Spot
tracker and a personal locator beacon.

Now, with the Stemme, land outs are only a remote possibility the way I
choose to fly. I have the engine to get me home. But knowing that the
engine can fail to start, I always have a safe landing option within
gliding distance and I won't attempt an engine start until a landing can
be assured. The price I pay for my self-imposed rules is shorter and/or
slower flights, but I just fly because I love to. I'm not in it for the
points, the cash, or the chicks.


On 6/6/2016 4:31 PM, Ramy wrote:
On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 2:38:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Well Ramy some of us are'nt born with the silver spoon or have unlimited expendable income, so we choose to spend our money on more important items. If I was gonna spend another $150 it would be one three more tows and three more runs at local records.

As to my "loved ones", they know I fly xc, they know I am self suficient and capable. They know I sill call or contact them when I land. Why on Gods green earth am I going to worry them unnecessarily by having them depend on seeing my track. As Dan said, for many of us, having a trace is more for entertainment purposes then suppossed percieved "safety". Theres a whole MAJORITY of us who do not fly contests but DO fly lots of xc on personal goals. We dont necessarily need tracking software. For your info I DO have a SPOT and I do use it actively when flying agricultural spraying, why? Because spraying is a more inherently dangerous form of flying. I never consider my soaring to be in thar catagory, land outs? No big deal, even in NV or in the Alabama swamp country. Can I ding my ship? You bet, but I am in more danger driving to the gliderport than I am when I fly xc.
Well, your last sentence sums up your attitude to the risk of flying gliders, if you really believe the nonsense about the danger of driving to the airport.
Please read http://www.pacificsoaring.org/docume...antenbrink.pdf and please stop lying to yourself and loved ones.
Don't get me wrong, I am as aggressive XC pilot as you probably are (hack, I was down low yesterday in the very same area you probably landed out years ago, check OLC) and I was not born with silver spoon, but I can afford a little over $10 per month (and I believe there are cheaper plans) just as anyone who can afford flying gliders.
Since I am very well aware of the risk I am taking, I try to minimize it using relatively low cost gadgets. A spot barely adds to the cost of your landout kit. I know of at least one place where you wouldn't get a tow if you show up without a tracker, and rightly so.
And just to clarify again, I am not talking about the advantage on following your track, this is indeed more for convenient and entertainment. I am talking about the case when a pilot does not show up at the end of the day and does not make contact, then having a tracker makes a huge difference for everyone involved.

Ramy

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Dan, 5J

It is irresponsible to the people who don't even know you that risk their lives to find you. Just like people who do stupid things and want the rescue team to save them. All it takes is a few bucks. There are a few technologies that are required to fly responsibly in today's world, none which are required by the FAA. Radios, Transponders, Trackers, PFlarm. Anybody flying XC or in dense traffic area with out these is irresponsible and is self centered. There is no good excuse. This is serious business and it is only a matter of time before it becomes law to leave the ground. Stupid actions by irresponsible pilots will speed the process.

BG

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 2:15:24 AM UTC-4, BG wrote:
It is irresponsible to the people who don't even know you that risk their lives to find you. Just like people who do stupid things and want the rescue team to save them. All it takes is a few bucks. There are a few technologies that are required to fly responsibly in today's world, none which are required by the FAA. Radios, Transponders, Trackers, PFlarm. Anybody flying XC or in dense traffic area with out these is irresponsible and is self centered. There is no good excuse. This is serious business and it is only a matter of time before it becomes law to leave the ground. Stupid actions by irresponsible pilots will speed the process.

BG

Pilots that spend money on electronic gadgets in the delusion of safety are the stupid ones.

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-7, BG wrote:
It is irresponsible to the people who don't even know you that risk their lives to find you. Just like people who do stupid things and want the rescue team to save them. All it takes is a few bucks. There are a few technologies that are required to fly responsibly in today's world, none which are required by the FAA. Radios, Transponders, Trackers, PFlarm. Anybody flying XC or in dense traffic area with out these is irresponsible and is self centered. There is no good excuse. This is serious business and it is only a matter of time before it becomes law to leave the ground. Stupid actions by irresponsible pilots will speed the process.

BG

You people are unbelievable....

Fact of the matter is half the soaring community is a bunch of richie rich wanna be people that like to "show their tracks" and have to have the most expensive glider. Its just a matter of who has the biggest checking account.. Lets not forget Oh I am the best, I stayed up the longest, Im so much better because I have 3 GPS units in my ship, you should have this or I am going to tell everyone you are unsafe, oh the FAA is gonna make you do this. No wonder why I see lots of stupid accidents happening no one actually flys the freaking airplane. I got news for you, you guys are playing with toys.. You can't go anywhere in the things except for some silly task that means nothing to most people. And you are apparently making up for some sort of shortcoming. I was going to get back in the soaring again but after reading all this BS you can all shove it. (Oh yea I know some of you internet tough guys will say we don't need you Ahole, but we know your cowardly in a face to face and never have the balls to say it in person) Id rather spend my hard earned cash on a power plane then dick around flying in circles with a bunch of wanna be fell short of the line humans. Hell half of you prob can't even get a medical that's why your flying gliders. Your **** stinks just like the rest of the world get real. I hope you know that the real world thinks soaring is something they did back in WWII.

Hey look to your left yea that's me flying to an actual destination to go do something while you are circling with the crows. This forum has proven to me that in life you can keep circling or firewall it and go somewhere I choose to go far far away from the soaring lot and go places. Keep Circling........

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 5:52:22 AM UTC-5, datruth wrote:

Pilots that spend money on electronic gadgets in the delusion of safety are the stupid ones.

Really? So it's stupid to buy an electronic audio vario so you can be heads up while thermalling instead of staring at a mechanical? It's stupid to have a GPS map so you can be heads up knowing where you are instead of heads down trying to figure out where you are on a sectional? It's stupid to carry a cell phone and Spot instead of relying on luck and your boy scout skills if you landout in the middle of nowhere?

Bull****.

Retro is fun, but safer? Anyone who believes that is really delusional...

Kirk
66

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 7:49:43 AM UTC-5, Candid Sky Productions wrote:

You people are unbelievable....

Fact of the matter is half the soaring community is a bunch of richie rich wanna be people that like to "show their tracks" and have to have the most expensive glider. Its just a matter of who has the biggest checking account. Lets not forget Oh I am the best, I stayed up the longest, Im so much better because I have 3 GPS units in my ship, you should have this or I am going to tell everyone you are unsafe, oh the FAA is gonna make you do this. No wonder why I see lots of stupid accidents happening no one actually flys the freaking airplane. I got news for you, you guys are playing with toys. You can't go anywhere in the things except for some silly task that means nothing to most people. And you are apparently making up for some sort of shortcoming. I was going to get back in the soaring again but after reading all this BS you can all shove it. (Oh yea I know some of you internet tough guys will say we don't need you Ahole, but we know your cowardly in a face to face and never have the balls to say it in person) Id rather spend my hard earned cash on a power plane then dick around flying in circles with a bunch of wanna be fell short of the line humans. Hell half of you prob can't even get a medical that's why your flying gliders. Your **** stinks just like the rest of the world get real. I hope you know that the real world thinks soaring is something they did back in WWII.

Hey look to your left yea that's me flying to an actual destination to go do something while you are circling with the crows. This forum has proven to me that in life you can keep circling or firewall it and go somewhere I choose to go far far away from the soaring lot and go places. Keep Circling........

Lenny, is that you? Long time no see, buddy - we've missed your sparkling repartee and snappy wit!

not...

Kirk
(Ahole who likes to dick around going noplace in his toy ;^)