A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

ELT Mandatory ?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 17th 04, 03:00 PM
Jim Culp
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default ELT Mandatory ?



Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim



  #2  
Old June 17th 04, 04:02 PM
Mal
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Purchased my own ELT after I was skiing in on a resort I came out on to the
main ski runs at night I took the wrong turn.

I fly with it through my parachute.

When 4 wheel driving I take it.

Cost me $279 AU with postage.

Mal



"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim





  #3  
Old June 17th 04, 05:47 PM
Pete Reinhart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Right on!!!!!
Cheers!, Pete
"Jim Culp" wrote in message
...


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

Further, if pilot does not return from a gliding flight
let the contest management rest at ease knowing the
pilot has made the choice;
and it is not management's responsibility for search
and rescue or body recovery.

Yes, it is ok. Just say that up front and openly and
act accordingly.

Personal Responsibility/Personal Choice -

Let us affirm and uphold personal responsibility and
personal choice in gliding flight, and in our other
choices in life or death or risk or adventures.

Is this concept too individual now?

Is this the day of cradle-to-the-grave governance?

Is this the day when it seems your interests are other-folk's-resp
onsibilities
because they can manage your choices with
more right than you?

Is this the day when others can care for you and control
you and manage for you and decide for you and regulate
for you ?

Do you join that Careful Attention and Governance by
others for you?

Live free or die. Dont tread on me. These were and
are founding concepts of this land.

This is a land of individual right and opportunity.

Kindly, keep it that way.

Dont matter if they find my body sooner
or very very
very much later, or never. My body be dead.

If my body be alive, I will take my chances in survival
if any.
My choice. My outcomes. I live or die by that.

Kindly considered.

Dancing on clouds,

Keep it up!

Jim





  #4  
Old June 17th 04, 07:19 PM
Chris OCallaghan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This morning CNN reported the drownings of 4 people. A small child
fell into a fountain. A rescuer followed her immediately. As did
another. And another. All were killed by a circulation pump that
pinned them to the bottom.

This is a cautionary tale. Some, like the previous poster, would say
the moral is "Look before your leap." Others might recognize that it
is in our primal nature to risk our lives to save others.

The lesson I've learned is that while I may be harwired to demonstrate
bravado through lack of concern for my own welfare, I should at the
very least consider those who are hardwired to respond to any call for
help. And a glider which doesn't return home carries with it an
implied call for help.

Joseph Campbell discussed this "need to help," even at risk to one's
own well-being, in The Hero with a Thousand Faces and The Power of
Myth. Both are interesting reads -- and emphasize just how dear such
people really are.

To sum up, since this is only a brief return to the group, if you
believe it is important to consider the safety of others, install the
best ELT (406) you can find. If you want to enhance your own safety,
consider a GPS PLB. But recognize the limitations of each, and
especially the 121.5 MHz units.
  #5  
Old June 17th 04, 07:42 PM
Thomas Knauff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I carry a personal ELT with me because I consider my greatest risk while
flying competitions is a mid-air collision.

If I bail out, the glider will be some distance from my location -
especially when flying at higher altitudes.

The glider ELT will only trigger if it crashes in a manner that will set off
the automatic feature of the ELT.

Cell phones are not reliable in many parts of the country.

Better locating devices are on the way, including cell phone locating
technology, but for about $500 dollars, I have an ELT in my glider and with
me.

I have been on several searches for ELT signals, and in every case, the
aircraft location was found in a couple of hours. I am equally sure there
are situations where the signal may be very difficult to track down.

A locating device gives a possibility of being located. Having none at all
may result in several days of being found if ever.

Tom Knauff


"Todd Pattist" wrote in message
...
"Mal" wrote:

Purchased my own ELT
I fly with it through my parachute.


I'd like to know why anyone would buy one of these personal
units. I want mine to activate in the crash. If I'm still
conscious, I'll use the cell phone or radio. Or I can
trigger the mounted ELT manually, and even remove and carry
it. If I parachute, I'll be within the search area of even
the best ELT units. I'm really interested in the thought
process behind buying a low-power portable ELT that won't
trigger automatically. Am I missing something?
Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)



  #6  
Old June 17th 04, 07:48 PM
Wallace Berry
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Absolutely! Well said Jim.

In article , Jim Culp
wrote:


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.

  #7  
Old June 17th 04, 10:34 PM
Vorsanger1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jim indicated that it is his choice whether or not to carry an ELT, and it is
NOT the contest manager's responsibility to search and rescue, or body
recovery. The fact is that when a plane or boat goes missing, a whole lot of
assets and efforts go into trying to help / rescue the crew. That being said,
and since it is the individual pilot's responsibility to deny or accept
assistance, let all those pilots who opt NOT to be helped to have this
preference down in writing, notarized, etc...This in order to absolve everybody
else in the case of a mishap. We are a litigious society, and you can bet that
failing that, the grieving widow and children will sue the CAP, the local
sheriff, fire department, the contest organizers and manager and anyone else
within reach for noth having found the body sooner when there was still a
chance that the pilot might have been alive at the time of the accident.

Cheers anyhow,

Charles
  #8  
Old June 17th 04, 11:08 PM
Dirk Elber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jim you have a good point that it is the pilot's choice. But at a
contest the Organizers are required to make every effort to locate you,
so they should be given the best chance of doing so. It may not be your
problem when all is said and done, but a lot of people, including family
members and those soaring friends that might want to spend hours/days
searching the ridges of the appalachians (or swamps of Florida), would
definitely appreciate you investing in one more piece of equipment.
Compared to the hardships that could be endured, an ELT is a simple
investment. Just re-read John Good's reports from Mifflin and consider
what those searchers would still be going through had they not known
where to look for Peter.
And even for non-contest pilots this is an important consideration. If
you are out by yourself on a x-country flight, who is going to know
where to look in case something goes wrong. Those of us that fly in
terrain such as the appalachians have definitely had the reason for
flying with ELTs brought to our attention over and over. But its also a
good thing to have installed for those that fly in any terrain.

Thank you KG, UH and others for making those many safety talks about the
advantages of having an ELT installed and how best to install them in
the various types of gliders.

Dirk

Asw-20 "E" - yes ELT equipped



Wallace Berry wrote:

Absolutely! Well said Jim.

In article , Jim Culp
wrote:




Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of gliding,

Please consider carefully. What is our nature? Individual;
or care from cradle to the grave?

Equipment should be pilot's choice, with pilot weighing
risks and outcome potentials.




  #9  
Old June 18th 04, 07:01 AM
Eric Greenwell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Vorsanger1 wrote:
Jim indicated that it is his choice whether or not to carry an ELT, and it is
NOT the contest manager's responsibility to search and rescue, or body
recovery. The fact is that when a plane or boat goes missing, a whole lot of
assets and efforts go into trying to help / rescue the crew. That being said,
and since it is the individual pilot's responsibility to deny or accept
assistance, let all those pilots who opt NOT to be helped to have this
preference down in writing, notarized, etc...This in order to absolve everybody
else in the case of a mishap.


I"m trying to imagine the publicity the sport might receive if a glider
crashed, and the organizers did nothing. Would that seem bizarre to the
public?

"The pilot requested we do nothing if he did not return", stated the
contest official, "and particularly not alert search and rescue people
or the police". "Of course, we hope he is enjoying himself, whereever he
might be", continued the contest official, who asked to remain
anonymouus, as requested by the missing pilot on his entry form.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

  #10  
Old June 18th 04, 02:59 PM
Romeo Delta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dirk Elber wrote in message

Thank you KG, UH and others for making those many safety talks about the
advantages of having an ELT installed and how best to install them in
the various types of gliders.


I'm sure that the fact that KG and UH sell these things has no bearing
on the matter at all, eh?

RD
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mandatory ELT specification (N-reg aircraft, 1400kg) Jürgen Exner Owning 4 January 13th 05 11:07 PM
Region 4 S: ELT Mandatory Chris OCallaghan Soaring 14 June 29th 04 07:38 PM
Region 4 S: ELT Mandatory Chris OCallaghan Soaring 4 June 19th 04 11:40 PM
Piper Mandatory SB 1051B Mark S Conway Owning 0 February 22nd 04 12:03 AM
Two Mandatory Truck Accessories (one of which could be aircraft-optional) Bill Kambic Naval Aviation 0 December 11th 03 09:52 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.