Scary Article about an airline flight with 14 Middle Eastern Men

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"tscottme" wrote in message
...
The Sept 11 hijackers didn't break any law until they started slicing
passengers with box cutters, spraying mace, and rushing the cockpit.

You mean other than bringing box cutters and mace onto an airplane, right?

Oh yeah, and entering the US illegally (for several of them, anyway).
Right?

Other than THOSE illegal acts, you mean. Right?

In any case, it's clear that you miss the point. We will never be
perfectly
safe. Why should our lives suck in the meantime? We all die eventually
anyway. I'd rather not get killed by a terrorist, but if I'm basically
living my life in fear and suspicion, that's not much of a life at all.
I'd
rather live a free life and enjoy myself, and accept the risk that I might
die earlier than I thought I would.

I'm not against security in general, but when we start suspecting people
just because they look different (without an overt illegal act), we lose
what makes us American.

Do you really think anyone on the airplane would've noticed how those men
behaved, if they had been white? It wasn't their behavior that drew
suspicion...it was their race. And that's racist.

Their race drew attention, their behavior drew suspicion.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Actually, before 9/11 it was not illegal to bring box cutters onto an
airplane. I don't know about mace. Anyway, didn't I hear somewhere that
the box cutters were planted on the planes before the hijackings?

Mace has always been. More than once (prior to 9/11), my wife has
forgotten she was carrying and was forced to leave it behind as she went
through airport security. I'm surprised box cutters weren't illegal, but
now that you mention it, that sounds right. However, planting box
cutters ahead of time spells conspiracy, which is illegal.

That said, I don't know for a fact that the box cutters were planted. If
they weren't illegal, why would they need to be planted? And if they were
planted, who planted them, and why haven't they been arrested (or have
they and I just didn't notice)?

Anyway, my point is that most or all of the people involved in the 9/11
attacks were NOT squeaky clean.


In my mind, it would appear to be difficult to prove any box cutters were
planted for 9/11, although its fun to speculate. Personally, I think that
is giving them to much credit. However, after reading this I realized that
I had forgotten the proof that box cutters were involved in 9/11. I seem to
remember reading of a phone call that said the hijackers had box cutters,
but I can't think of anything else. Were any box cutters found in any of
the attack/crash sites that would appear to have been on the planes, or is
there anything else that proves box cutters were involved?

Earl G.

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"tscottme" wrote in message
...
The Sept 11 hijackers didn't break any law until they started slicing
passengers with box cutters, spraying mace, and rushing the cockpit.

You mean other than bringing box cutters and mace onto an airplane, right?

Oh yeah, and entering the US illegally (for several of them, anyway).
Right?

Other than THOSE illegal acts, you mean. Right?

In any case, it's clear that you miss the point. We will never be
perfectly
safe. Why should our lives suck in the meantime? We all die eventually
anyway. I'd rather not get killed by a terrorist, but if I'm basically
living my life in fear and suspicion, that's not much of a life at all.
I'd
rather live a free life and enjoy myself, and accept the risk that I might
die earlier than I thought I would.

I'm not against security in general, but when we start suspecting people
just because they look different (without an overt illegal act), we lose
what makes us American.

Do you really think anyone on the airplane would've noticed how those men
behaved, if they had been white? It wasn't their behavior that drew
suspicion...it was their race. And that's racist.

Pete


You did read the part of the story describing all the behavior of the men,
right? You seem to think that having olive skin makes one exempt from being
observed. It's not that one olive-skinned men made one sideways glance at
another olive-skinned man. The story described apparent coordinated
behavior. Make yourself feel anyway you like by pretending Sept 11 involved
an ethically diverse group of terrorists.

Box cutters were not illegal on Sept 11. I don't exactly how the "mace"
made it on the aircraft, but ask anyone that has worked the ramp at an
airport, get a job in any number of ground service jobs, or make alliance
with someone in such a job, and you can pretty much smuggle a pink elephant
on to the aircraft. I guarantee you that just as I did in the past I can
get a job with a catering or fueling contractor. Once you get the job you
will have opportunity to secret items on the aircraft, even under the new
rules.

It's not racist to notice the description of people. Even if it was racist,
asking a question is not a hardship. A crew member very well can "break
line" and investigate the lavatory. The point of the exercise is not to try
and impress the ACLU with what obvious things we can all pretend are
invisible. The point of the exercise is safe interstate transportation by
aircraft.

If you or anyone of any description is so sensitive that being asked a
question is interpreted as persecution, stay home or fly on ACLU airlines.

It's silly to move from we can't be 100% safe to we shouldn't take
reasonable precations. You made the point you will not connect the
description of passengers and their behavior, good for you. Why must your
decision be forced on all other passengers? If the described passengers
hadn't appeared to be taking coordinated action, if they had all remained in
their seats reading magazines, listening to music, or sleeping and they were
singled out, you might have a point. But even if they had done all that and
a crew member asked them questions, that's not a hardship. I see no reason
to conduct security according to the preferences of the most sensitive
person available.

--
Scott

"tscottme" wrote in message
...
You did read the part of the story describing all the behavior of the men,
right?

I read the entire thing, first word to last.

You seem to think that having olive skin makes one exempt from being
observed.

If you would bother to pay attention, you'd understand that's not what I'm
saying.

It's not that one olive-skinned men made one sideways glance at
another olive-skinned man. The story described apparent coordinated
behavior.

That doesn't justify the treatment they got.

Box cutters were not illegal on Sept 11. I don't exactly how the "mace"
made it on the aircraft, but ask anyone that has worked the ramp at an
airport, get a job in any number of ground service jobs, or make alliance
with someone in such a job, and you can pretty much smuggle a pink
elephant
on to the aircraft.

Of course you can. No amount of security will prevent that. Humans are
falliable and corruptable, and there's always a way to beat the system.
That's my point? Why should we spend our lives in a panic, about something
we have no way to fix?

I guarantee you that just as I did in the past I can
get a job with a catering or fueling contractor. Once you get the job you
will have opportunity to secret items on the aircraft, even under the new
rules.

I never said you wouldn't. I have no idea why you think I did, or why you
think this particular train of thought is relevant.

It's not racist to notice the description of people. Even if it was
racist,
asking a question is not a hardship.

Now I'm wondering if YOU read the article. The men were inconvenienced a
LOT more than just being asked a question or two.

If you or anyone of any description is so sensitive that being asked a
question is interpreted as persecution, stay home or fly on ACLU airlines.

Now I'm pretty certain you didn't bother to read the entire article. Please
come back when you have.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"tscottme" wrote in message
...
You did read the part of the story describing all the behavior of the
men,
right?

I read the entire thing, first word to last.

You seem to think that having olive skin makes one exempt from being
observed.

If you would bother to pay attention, you'd understand that's not what I'm
saying.

It's not that one olive-skinned men made one sideways glance at
another olive-skinned man. The story described apparent coordinated
behavior.

That doesn't justify the treatment they got.

Box cutters were not illegal on Sept 11. I don't exactly how the "mace"
made it on the aircraft, but ask anyone that has worked the ramp at an
airport, get a job in any number of ground service jobs, or make
alliance
with someone in such a job, and you can pretty much smuggle a pink
elephant
on to the aircraft.

Of course you can. No amount of security will prevent that. Humans are
falliable and corruptable, and there's always a way to beat the system.
That's my point? Why should we spend our lives in a panic, about
something
we have no way to fix?

I guarantee you that just as I did in the past I can
get a job with a catering or fueling contractor. Once you get the job
you
will have opportunity to secret items on the aircraft, even under the
new
rules.

I never said you wouldn't. I have no idea why you think I did, or why you
think this particular train of thought is relevant.

It's not racist to notice the description of people. Even if it was
racist,
asking a question is not a hardship.

Now I'm wondering if YOU read the article. The men were inconvenienced a
LOT more than just being asked a question or two.

If you or anyone of any description is so sensitive that being asked a
question is interpreted as persecution, stay home or fly on ACLU
airlines.

Now I'm pretty certain you didn't bother to read the entire article.
Please
come back when you have.

Pete

****
http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/****

Peter Duniho wrote:

I'm surprised box cutters weren't illegal, but now that
you mention it, that sounds right.

Although I never carried a box cutter, I used to carry a small pocketknife (about
2.5" blade). Security never blinked an eye about that prior to 9/11.

George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 15:21:34 GMT, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:



Peter Duniho wrote:

I'm surprised box cutters weren't illegal, but now that
you mention it, that sounds right.

Although I never carried a box cutter, I used to carry a small pocketknife (about

Actually, I do.
I have one of the Schefeld(sp?) folding box cutters. I use it around
the shop more than I do knives or chisels. (works great for trimming
fiberglass lay-ups) It has a belt clip and I rarely remember to leave
it in the shop when I go to town. The blade is only 3/4 or 1 inch.

2.5" blade). Security never blinked an eye about that prior to 9/11.

I remember in the "old days" they'd take the pen, or jack knife and
measure it against a finger, then give it back.

Depending on where you are and what you've been doing it is quite easy
to forget your are carrying a *big* knife as it has become second
nature.

I know one couple who spent several months in South America. Most of
the time was out in the country/jungle.

They were standing in line to board the plane when security pointed
out he couldn't take the knife as carry on. :-)) (He forgot he
still had a large hunting knife on his belt) Time was short and the
luggage had already been checked so he decided to just leave the
knife.

As they were boarding, one of the security people walked up and said,
"Here, you look honest, just put it in your pack and leave it there".

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


George Patterson
In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault.
In Tennessee, it's evangelism.

Howdy!

In article ,
Ron Snipes wrote:
http://www.womenswallstreet.com/WWS/...&articleid=711

In this article, the writer describes her husband as "anxious"...that would
NOT have properly described me.

*sigh* I will not dismiss the author's claimed anxiety. However, I noted the
use of Anne Coulter's writings to buttress at least one point. That is an
immediate red flag. Big red flag. Agenda warning.

That's right. I'm prejudiced.

My BS detector is twitching.

yours,
Michael


--
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| White Wolf and the Phoenix
Bowie, MD, USA | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff
| http://www.radix.net/~herveus/