dimpling

When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies? I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:
"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...

When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.


Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies? I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB



Another problem I had whem I bult my RV-6 was I had bought a bunch
of generic "clecos" from ATS and they were all junk had to throw them
all away.
Make sure they are the Cleco brand or Wedgelock brand most other brands
are junk.

Jerry

I am using cleco brand and, yes, I am using the copper ones. The dimple
dies are the "springback" ones from US Tool. The skins are 6061 if that
makes a difference.

Mike
MU-2


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies? I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB

Hi Mike
It may be an issue with the 6061 skins cuz I found the same problem
when I was building my rebel. I used the cheap dimpler that has a nail
through the centre or the same dies that I welded to a pair of vice
grips. Drilling 3/32" then dimpling then opening up the holes to #30
worked for me.

I am using cleco brand and, yes, I am using the copper ones. The dimple
dies are the "springback" ones from US Tool. The skins are 6061 if that
makes a difference.

Mike
MU-2


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies? I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB

Thanks. Hopefully there is more dimpling to do where I can try starting
with a smaller hole.

Mike


"Drew Dalgleish" wrote in message
...
Hi Mike
It may be an issue with the 6061 skins cuz I found the same problem
when I was building my rebel. I used the cheap dimpler that has a nail
through the centre or the same dies that I welded to a pair of vice
grips. Drilling 3/32" then dimpling then opening up the holes to #30
worked for me.

I am using cleco brand and, yes, I am using the copper ones. The dimple
dies are the "springback" ones from US Tool. The skins are 6061 if that
makes a difference.

Mike
MU-2


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where
the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies?
I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB

You might also try asking at the murphy builders group mailing list.


https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm

I am using cleco brand and, yes, I am using the copper ones. The dimple
dies are the "springback" ones from US Tool. The skins are 6061 if that
makes a difference.

Mike
MU-2


"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
k.net...
When I dimple holes in thin sheet they get larger to the point where the
clecos won't hold. Should I drill holes that are to be dimpled for 1/8
rivets a little smaller (like #31 or #32)? What are others doing?

Mike
Murphy Moose.

Never had that problem and I did a bunch of drilling and dimpling on the
RV-6. Are you drilling #30 to start with and using quality dimple dies? I
hate to ask, but are you using the copper colored clecos, or have you
accidentally dipped into the silver ones?

Another option is that your cleco's are worn out. Any chance of that?

KB

Mike,
Veeduber recommends that one drill with a #40, deburr and then dimple
with the 1/8" dimple dies. I have done some like that and some using
the #30 drill first. Sometimes I have to 'open up' the hole a bit with
a reamer when trying to put in the rivet when I use the #40 bit first.
Veeduber's advise was in reference to using blind rivets iirc.

The springback dimple dies are meant for dimpling fuel tank skins so
that smearing sealant will not make the rivet stand proud of the dimple
so I think they may be a few thousandths oversize.

Hope this helps and remember all advice is worth what you paid for it!
Bruce

"Bruce E Butts" wrote in message
...

Mike,
Veeduber recommends that one drill with a #40, deburr and then dimple with
the 1/8" dimple dies.

A 1/8" dimple die won't fit in a #40 hole, which is roughly 3/32.

I have done some like that and some using the #30 drill first. Sometimes
I have to 'open up' the hole a bit with a reamer when trying to put in the
rivet when I use the #40 bit first. Veeduber's advise was in reference to
using blind rivets iirc.

The springback dimple dies are meant for dimpling fuel tank skins so that
smearing sealant will not make the rivet stand proud of the dimple so I
think they may be a few thousandths oversize.

Most of the high quality dimple dies are of the springback configuration.
They are good for dimpling everything that needs to be dimpled, not just
tanks. They are not oversize. Some of the tool vendors sell special tank
dyes which produce a slightly deeper dimple, but that isn't a function of
whether they are springback dyes or not.


Hope this helps and remember all advice is worth what you paid for it!
Bruce

KB

Kyle Boatright wrote:

A 1/8" dimple die won't fit in a #40 hole, which is roughly 3/32.

--------------------------------------------

Dear Kyle (and the Group),

I believe my cited comment had to do with using poppers. The 100
degree dimpling sets use a steel mandrel -- typically, a finishing nail
with the point clipped off -- that you replace periodically as the work
progresses.

When using thin/soft metal, using the popper-type dimpling dies tends
to enlarge the hole. Come back to set (pull) the rivets and they're
liable to pull right through the hole, leading to the Conventional
Wisdom that countersunk-head poppers don't work. They do -- at least
for aluminum poppers -- but only if the hole is the proper size.

Start with a pilot hole that is smaller than the intended rivet size --
and select a pulling mandrel to fit. Anything that fits will work. (I
think I used 4d finishing nails.) Just make sure your puller can grip
the shank and that the head of the nail is large enough to not pull
through the die. A pneumatic puller will give you more uniform
results. You will need to ream/drill the hole to size prior to setting
the rivet but the result is a tight, symmetrical dimple.

If you have a lathe, dimpling dies for poppers are easy to make.
(Hint: For the male die, grind the angle into your tool bit. For the
female, simply grind a drill bit to 100 degrees. They may be used
as-made but will last longer if case-hardened.) 100 degree dimple die
sets for poppers are also available from AirParts, ATS and so on.

-R.S.Hoover