If user fees go into effect I'm done

On 2007-02-10, Judah wrote:
It looks like aircraft weighing less than 2 tons are exempt. I believe that
would pretty much cover all single engine pistons.

This is the case. I've never paid a single user fee (aside from landing
fees, but the airports I generally visit are privately owned, and the
landing fee is charged by the owner of the airfield, not the
government).

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Chris writes:

Have a look at the future for some of us it is the present.

http://www.eurocontrol.int/crco/publ...ance_tool.html

Europe has always been a leader in bureaucracy and overregulation, aided by a
complacent population that has never known greater freedoms and is unaware of
their existence.

I wonder why weight enters into the calculation. Do controllers carry the
aircraft on their backs from waypoint to waypoint? And since air traffic
control is already (or should be) a service of the state, why is tax added to
the final amount?

And why should people download an unverified application and run it on their
own computers? How do they know that this executable can be trusted? What's
wrong with a Web page that does the same calculation?

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On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:21:01 -0000, "Chris"
wrote in :


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

The ATC user fee issue is a corporate boondoggle like Boeing's recent
infamous proposal to lease a hundred B-757(?) tankers to the USAF.

Have a look at the future for some of us it is the present.

http://www.eurocontrol.int/crco/publ...ance_tool.html

RSO Distance Tool

This application, once installed, will allow users to calculate
the EUROCONTROL route charges in order to obtain an estimation of
the charges they will likely incur when operating flights within
the EUROCONTROL charging area. Additional information about the
RSO Distance Tool you may find in the CRCO Customer Guide To
Charges (paragraph 10).

Why did your populous accept the imposition of a privatized ATC
system? What did you do to resist it?

Larry Dighera writes:

Why did your populous accept the imposition of a privatized ATC
system? What did you do to resist it?

Europeans are already accustomed to having their lives run for them by
bureaucrats (now in several layers both domestic and international). It does
not occur to them to _resist_ things. The ones who were willing to resist
injustices and incompetence crossed the Atlantic and Pacific centuries ago.

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On 2007-02-10, Mxsmanic wrote:
Europeans are already accustomed to having their lives run for them by
bureaucrats (now in several layers both domestic and international). It does
not occur to them to _resist_ things. The ones who were willing to resist
injustices and incompetence crossed the Atlantic and Pacific centuries ago.

Europeans do actually resist - as evidenced by the massive response to
the CAA's Mode S transponder proposals. However, the GA population is so
small it is effectively disenfranchised - the CAA basically responded
'well we're going to do it anyway so there'. When you are 50,000 voters
out of an electorate of 40 million, your opinion counts for nothing -
especially when the CAA is leaned on heavily by moneyed corporate
interests like the airlines - the executives of which can remove their
donations to political parties if the CAA doesn't do what they want.

In the end your only option if you don't like the CAA is to move
somewhere else (typically the US). However, most pilots like enough
_other_ things about their own country that they aren't prepared to move
over just a single issue.

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Larry Dighera wrote:


Ours is a government of the PEOPLE, by the People, and for the PEOPLE,
and corporations are not PEOPLE; expose their greedy exploits at every
opportunity, or resign yourself to enslavement through inaction.


The airlines want to control U.S. ATC. They also want everyone else to
pay for it.

Having said that, privatization of ATC and users fees are really
different issues.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On 9 Feb 2007 08:46:30 -0800, wrote in

Ours is a government of the PEOPLE, by the People, and for the PEOPLE,

the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government." -- Patrick Henry

If you believe that you believe anything.

Now this is weird.

I just found that exact quote yesterday looking for something else.

mike

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves
money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority
always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the
public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses
over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two
hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following
sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to
great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back
to bondage."
-- Alexander Tyler - Circa 1780 - discussing the fall of the
Athenian Democracy.

mike regish wrote:
..

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two
hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following
sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to
great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back
to bondage."
-- Alexander Tyler - Circa 1780 - discussing the fall of the
Athenian Democracy.




Sounds like we are about on schedule.

I can not find the initial post on this thread, but...
That said, I would expect if user fees go into effect we will se a lot
of flying outside the system, be it VFR or even IFR and that is not a
good or safe idea.

I'd certainly be tempted to fly VFR outside the system by going
between small airports and staying away from the larger ones unless it
was absolutely necessary. Oh... Wait, I already prefer to fly that
way. :-)) I'd also fly in legally marginal conditions when I'd
otherwise go IFR. I'd not fly IFR outside the system, but I'd bet
there would be many who would. Weather briefings? I'd bet the
weather channel would become real popular if they charge for weather
briefings. VFR flight plans when they charge for them? Yah gotta be
kidding.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com