US Air Force survival gun?

Alan Minyard wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:11:54 -0400, "Bruce W.1" wrote:

The US Air Force used to put a gun in their pilot survival packs, the
M-6 Scout. See: http://www.milesfortis.com/church/akc13.htm

Does anyone know what the Air Force uses today?

I'd really like to know because I'm looking for a survival gun to take
into the woods while backpacking. It must be as light in weight as
possible.

Thanks for your help.

Kel-Tech makes a nice 9mm or 40S&W (your choice) folding carbine.
I would guess that it weights about three pounds (unloaded).

Al Minyard

What pieces of crap. In WW2 Luftwaffe air crews had the incredible
Sauer Drilling that featured two shotgun barrels and a .375 mag rifle
combined. Add to that the 27mm Leuchtpistole that also fired grenades,
flares, sounding rounds, and Luftminen. Now that's firepower and
utility!
The US by comparison postwar had that ugly, ****ty M-6 scrap metal
survival gun and now they carry either compact 9s/40s/45s/or various
M-16 compact rifles depending on the crews and mission.
You would think they would do better than that.

Rob

From: "Kevin Brooks"

snip

I used parachute cord to do that in the Great Smoky Mountain NP--and woke up
the next morning to find that field mice had shimmied up the tree, down the
cord, and into our food supply. Can't win for losin' sometimes.

Brooks




I once(only once) left my boots outside my tent and woke to the sound of a
rodent eating the leather.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"robert arndt" wrote in message
om...
Alan Minyard wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:11:54 -0400, "Bruce W.1"
wrote:

The US Air Force used to put a gun in their pilot survival packs, the
M-6 Scout. See: http://www.milesfortis.com/church/akc13.htm

Does anyone know what the Air Force uses today?

I'd really like to know because I'm looking for a survival gun to take
into the woods while backpacking. It must be as light in weight as
possible.

Thanks for your help.

Kel-Tech makes a nice 9mm or 40S&W (your choice) folding carbine.
I would guess that it weights about three pounds (unloaded).

Al Minyard

What pieces of crap. In WW2 Luftwaffe air crews had the incredible
Sauer Drilling that featured two shotgun barrels and a .375 mag rifle
combined. Add to that the 27mm Leuchtpistole that also fired grenades,
flares, sounding rounds, and Luftminen. Now that's firepower and
utility!
The US by comparison postwar had that ugly, ****ty M-6 scrap metal
survival gun and now they carry either compact 9s/40s/45s/or various
M-16 compact rifles depending on the crews and mission.
You would think they would do better than that.

Gee, and your Aryan Super Race still lost the war--who'd have thunk it?

Brooks


Rob

Kevin Brooks wrote:

I was going to fish, I once kicked one out of the brush and watched him
scurry away--it was so comical I had to laugh outloud. He was running as
hard as he could while repeatedly looking back at me with this obviously
terrified look about him, trying to see if I was going to chase him. Danged
thing took off up the side of the ridge (a pretty steep one) and I swear he
was accelerating the whole time. Made me realize if I ever did encounter one
who was testy that outrunning him is *not* an option.

Well thanks for the update. Need to look into this more.

We've had several local "lectures" from state wildlife
biologists about the bears (which have become very frequent
visitors to most Northampton neighborhoods; they hit the
bird feeders and trash cans). They always emphasize the lack
of aggressiveness of the black bear (as opposed to the grizzly).

I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Needless to say, I have not been too concerned encountering
bears in the woods, but am quite convinced there is going to
be "an incident" in town some day as someone runs into a bear
who has become habituated to humans.

A couple years ago, I was visiting a friend at the edge of town
as a bear hit trash cans left out by an unthinking tenent. Myself,
with infuriated dog (on leash) and 6 other people stood and
watched this bear go through the trash cans not much more than
30 yards away. He totally ignored our presence, or the near
hysterical dog trying to commence a chase. *That* is potentially
a dangerous bear!

Guess it's time to walk a bit more softly (or perhaps more noisily)
over the trails now that I have some alternative info on the beast.


SMH

Peter Stickney wrote:

Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.

My brother works as a cop at Amherst College and he's always
getting wildlife complaints over there. Get the skunk out of
the dining common; a fox was seen wandering around the library;
moose in a parking lot!

However one parents weekend, with the college attempting to
look its best (this is generally a well-to-do population),
he got a report that a red tailed hawk plucked a squirrel right
off the lawn in front of students and parents, carrying it
struggling away, most likely to become baby hawk food.

The parents and students wanted the police to do something about
it!

Since Amherst and my own fair town of Northampton are official
"No Nuke" zones, and there haven't been any nuclear events, even
with Westover RAFB not too distant, perhaps a "No Predation" zone
would be useful.


SMH

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't try a handgun on a bear though. Too dicey.

Rules for hiking in bear country:

1. ALWAYS bring a friend.
2. ALWAYS carry a .22LR pistol. NOTE: don't tell friend you have a gun.
3. When charged by a bear, shoot friend in leg.
4. RUN. You can't outrun a bear, but you can outrun your friend.

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...


snip


I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

Yeah, folks just don't seem to understand that predation is supposed to be a
natural process, and we have removed some of the predators from the chain;
unless hunters fill the void, you get population explosions in
not-so-comfortable places and attendant problems. ISTR Long Island, among
other northeastern communities, has been having a heck of a problem with
deer, but every time a regulated hunt or thinning program is proposed, the
PETA weenies come out of the woodwork. It would not be so bad if the
critters were *just* eating up folks ornamentals in their yards, but we are
experiencing fatalities; there have been at least two fatalities due to
hitting deer on the road in my local area over the past three or four years,
and about fifteen years ago I lost an uncle when an oncoming car hit a deer,
tossed it up into the air, and sent it through the windshield of the car he
was traveling in.


There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Talk about Bambi...every year we have one or two accounts in the state of
*deer* attacking folks during the rutting season. Haven't heard of any
fatalities recently, but a couple of folks were pretty badly injured. Folks
always think "oh, how cute" and forget they are wild animals and can tear
you up pretty good.


Needless to say, I have not been too concerned encountering
bears in the woods, but am quite convinced there is going to
be "an incident" in town some day as someone runs into a bear
who has become habituated to humans.

Those are the ones to worry most about. I was always taught to stay away
from bears near any parks, and *all* sows and cubs. The first because of the
likelihood of them having lost their natural fear of us, the second because
they are extremely defensive of their young.


A couple years ago, I was visiting a friend at the edge of town
as a bear hit trash cans left out by an unthinking tenent. Myself,
with infuriated dog (on leash) and 6 other people stood and
watched this bear go through the trash cans not much more than
30 yards away. He totally ignored our presence, or the near
hysterical dog trying to commence a chase. *That* is potentially
a dangerous bear!

Guess it's time to walk a bit more softly (or perhaps more noisily)
over the trails now that I have some alternative info on the beast.

Interestingly, when looking for the bear attack statistics I ran across a
reference to those "bear bells" that some folks wear when hiking. Seems some
researchers tied some to a bush and jingled them as grizzlies strolled by,
and got absolutely *no* response from the bears, other than curiousity
(which is not the reaction I would want to engender in any grizzly I might
meet when fishing in Montana or Wyoming). The noise thing may be another
"doesn't really work, or works counter to the desired result" item, like
that "play dead when dealing with a grizzly" bit.

Brooks



SMH

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Stephen Harding writes:
Kevin Brooks wrote:

The ol' Black Bear actually accounts for many more attacks against
humans in
the US than does the Grizzly, which makes sense being as they are more
widely distributed and have a larger population. I carried a 12 guage
pump

Are you certain of that? I've read quite consistently that
the black bear is really very slow to attack a human, even
when it has cubs. Attacks are extremely rare.

I think the last I heard, a couple years ago a woman jogging
around somewhere in Quebec was killed by a black bear. It
was an exceptional event!

I guess I should find out more. We've got *plenty* of black
bears around here, and they're definitely done with their
winter naps.

Had my first encounter with one for this year just a few days
ago. It growled at my dog, made a short charge towards the
dog, and then took off. This would be my 5th encounter with
local black bears in about 3 years, and usually, they just
skeedadle as fast as possible when they see me. The critters
are *everywhere* around here now days!

I haven't heard any credible stories of Black Bear attacks either.

Then you may want to reread what is available out there. A quick Google
should convince you that the black is no teddy bear; they have accounted for
a number of fatalities, and reportedly account for more attacks and
fatalities in BC than the also-present grizzlies.

They're pretty willing to just go about their business and amble
along. I think that the Bears (and us) face more danger from the
Charging Buick than anything else.
That being said, wo do have a lot of bear up here, these days. (IIRC,
the census figures put the bear population in New England at the
highest level since about 1600.
Hmm. given the number of bear sighting out to Durham, it could well
be that bears are attracted to Academic environments. I know Skunks
are - there's an area of UNH that's just loaded with them. And teh
City-raised kids learn pretty quickly that they all respond quite well
to "Here, Kitty!"
As it happens, I'll be meeting with some of teh Wildlife Studies folks
at UNH this weekend. I'll see what they think.

Ask them if any of them have read Shelton's book on the subject of black
bears and attacks.

Brooks



--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster

"Stephen Harding" wrote in message
...
I think much of it has to do with the political thinking of
this area. Hunters are very bad (their trucks commonly have
sugar poured into gas tanks during deer season), as of course
guns (did you know a gun is "an instrument of violence"?).

Of course they are, they're designed to kill with. Doesn't mean they're
*bad*, but a firearm is primarily designed to blow holes in targets, and
those targets may be cute fluffy living creatures just as easily as
cardboard cutouts or metallic silhouettes.

There is the promotion of the idea that animals are our friends
and only humans are the real aggressive creatures. I think the
"gentle Bambi" side of wildlife is emphasized at the expense of
reality.

Ouch. Without hunting or some other means of culling, Bambi is going to
breed like mad, eat the pristine wilderness into a barren waste, and then
starve en masse (of course all that will probably be the fault of hunters,
the government, large corporations and/or Saddam Hussein rather than the
sentimental well-meaning treehuggers).

Okay, over-hunting is also very bad, as the passenger pigeon would tell you,
but while Nature usually works out a balance it can be quite messy for a few
generations while the scales swing.

--
Paul J. Adam

"Ragnar" wrote in message
...

"Harry Andreas" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't try a handgun on a bear though. Too dicey.

Rules for hiking in bear country:

1. ALWAYS bring a friend.
2. ALWAYS carry a .22LR pistol. NOTE: don't tell friend you have a gun.
3. When charged by a bear, shoot friend in leg.
4. RUN. You can't outrun a bear, but you can outrun your friend.

Sounds like a variation of the old joke..."Run? Why? We can't outrun that
bear!" "Nope, but I figure I can outrun *you*!"

Brooks