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#101
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On Sat, 1 May 2004 11:42:36 +0200, "Emmanuel Gustin"
wrote: The problem was that people with a real skill in airborne gunnery were extremely rare. Most gunners and pilots were very, very bad at estimating range and lead without some assistance (underestimating it by half was common), and the probability they would hit their target was correspondingly low. Is this, by any chance, why skeet shooting is so popular at base gun clubs? Art shoots skeet at Nellis and meets all kinds of fighter pilots. I shoot a 1903A on the rare not-just-skeet days at the EDW gun club and see a lot of pilots with shotguns. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#102
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On Wed, 05 May 2004 05:28:58 -0400, Cub Driver
wrote: (Must wreak havoc with arrival times in London! I suppose pilots must get permission to ride a 300 mph jet stream? That could shave two hours off a flight BOS-LON.) No permission that I know of, although it shows up in the flight planning. When the jet stream and the flight track coincide, the ground speeds really soar. However, the jet stream doesn't follow great circle routes, so sometimes it's a crosswind instead of a tail wind going east[1]. We once flew from Hawaii to San Francisco that set a record for the Honolulu-SFO route. It was about an hour shorter than the usual time, purely because of the jet stream. It was winter, of course, probably January. We'd pre-boarded and got to see the flight attendants reaction to the captain's announcement of the flight time. They were quite dismayed, because they weren't going to have time to serve dinner and show the movie sequentially. As it was, I think the movie ended on final, well after the landing announcement, and they'd really sprinted through the drink and dinner service to manage that. Anyway, the jet stream is why Everest has that plume of ice crystals downwind all the time; Everest trips the flow, making the moisture condense. Before aircraft, that was the only direct manifestation, except for storm tracks, which were more estimated than measured in most of the world. It's called the jet stream because it's up where only jets fly, or at least jet airliners. [1] Being in SoCal, I go pretty far north to get to London, so the jet stream doesn't do me as much good as it does easterners. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer |
#103
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"Mary Shafer" wrote...
(Must wreak havoc with arrival times in London! I suppose pilots must get permission to ride a 300 mph jet stream? That could shave two hours off a flight BOS-LON.) No permission that I know of, although it shows up in the flight planning. When the jet stream and the flight track coincide, the ground speeds really soar. However, the jet stream doesn't follow great circle routes, so sometimes it's a crosswind instead of a tail wind going east[1]. Seldom is the jet stream 300 mph -- nominal maximum in the winter time is 200 knots or so, though I've seen 220 knots a couple times... Airline dispatchers routinely adjust routes to take advantage of favorable jetstream winds, and to avoid horrendous headwinds when possible. Various ATC agencies do their part as well, adjusting oceanic tracks with the migration of the jetstreams. |
#104
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Is this, by any chance, why skeet shooting is so popular at base gun
clubs? When I was a pilot in the marines, Mary, 50 years ago, we had a skeet range and a very large allotment of rounds per year. I don't recall the number, but I never got anywhere near using up my allotment. I presume the reason for poviding us the facilities and ammunition was to sharpen our shooting skills. But the reason it was '"popular" was that guys who like to fly tend to be guys who like to shoot, vince norris |
#105
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the jet stream doesn't follow great circle routes, so sometimes it's a crosswind instead of a tail wind going east[1]. This might explain why it never seems to affect the flight as much as 300 mph would lead one to believe. As I said, all I can see in a seven-hour flight is half an hour, though that of course is the schedule, and perhaps one can't predict sufficiently far in advance for a schedule. I certainly never recall being on a BOS-LON flight that got there an hour early, never mind two hours! We got fairly far north also. Several times I've flown to Italy, which for me entailed flying first to Dulles (United). The first hour, it seemed, had me retracing my route up the east coast (which does of course move ENE, then NE) of the U.S. and Canada. Must be quite a choice, between the Great Circle and the jet stream. Or is the route absolutely determined by ATC, not the pilot? BTW, if it's called jet stream because of jets, what did the 20th AF call it in 1945? all the best -- Dan Ford email: (put Cubdriver in subject line) The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com Viva Bush! blog www.vivabush.org |
#106
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Mary Shafer wrote:
On Sat, 1 May 2004 11:42:36 +0200, "Emmanuel Gustin" wrote: The problem was that people with a real skill in airborne gunnery were extremely rare. Most gunners and pilots were very, very bad at estimating range and lead without some assistance (underestimating it by half was common), and the probability they would hit their target was correspondingly low. Is this, by any chance, why skeet shooting is so popular at base gun clubs? Art shoots skeet at Nellis and meets all kinds of fighter pilots. I shoot a 1903A on the rare not-just-skeet days at the EDW gun club and see a lot of pilots with shotguns. Mary Yes...skeet clubs were formed years ago on almost all military airbases...they're free access (afik) and are quite popular, that was the reason given to me for their existence, and although they're likely not as useful for their original purpose as they once were, their popularity has given them a reason for being. Lot's of fun. -- -Gord. |
#107
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"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote in message ...
"Cub Driver" wrote in message ... As I said, all I can see in a seven-hour flight is half an hour, though that of course is the schedule, and perhaps one can't predict sufficiently far in advance for a schedule. I certainly never recall being on a BOS-LON flight that got there an hour early, never mind two hours! That may depend on the airline. My experience on cross-Atlantic flights is that the scheduled time difference is 45 minutes, and that the flight "downwind" is the one more liekly to arrive on time, even if there are delays at departure. BTW, if it's called jet stream because of jets, what did the 20th AF call it in 1945? The Germans named it "Strahlstroemung" in 1939, well before jet aircraft were around. Jet stream is the straightforward translation. My favourite word is "Duesenstrahljaeger". [French, from Old French, from jeter, to spout forth, throw, from Vulgar Latin *iectre, alteration of Latin iactre, frequentative of iacere, to throw. See y- in Indo-European Roots.] |
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