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kontiki wrote:
chris wrote:

Wow, the thought of having firearms that aren't locked away just
worries me. Here as I understand it the police won't allow you a
firearms license without showing them you have them safely locked away
in some sort of safe, and if they were to find out you kept your gun
in your hangar / aeroplane they'd go ballistic!


That's because you have been indoctrinated to fear firearms and
that no "good' person should ever need one and they are 'dangerous'.
A "locked away" gun is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Let me tell you it is the person holding the firearm that is
dangerous, and if it were not a pistol it could be a knife,
a club or a bomb or even bare hands.

As long as the world is full of 'bad' people it is up to 'good'
people to be ready to protect themselves and others.


Oh my God! Please tell me you don't actually believe that??

I suppose you leave your guns loaded too??

AFAIK you can't even get a handgun over here without great difficulty -
we sure as hell don't want a bunch of people running around with guns!!

"chris" wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting wrote:
Chris wrote:
"kontiki" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:

Wow, the thought of having firearms that aren't locked away just
worries me. Here as I understand it the police won't allow you a
firearms license without showing them you have them safely locked away
in some sort of safe, and if they were to find out you kept your gun
in your hangar / aeroplane they'd go ballistic!

That's because you have been indoctrinated to fear firearms and
that no "good' person should ever need one and they are 'dangerous'.
A "locked away" gun is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Let me tell you it is the person holding the firearm that is
dangerous, and if it were not a pistol it could be a knife,
a club or a bomb or even bare hands.

As long as the world is full of 'bad' people it is up to 'good'
people to be ready to protect themselves and others.

Yawn, Yawn, Yawn!

Don't worry, we'll even protect ignorant folk such as yourself.

Hey, that wasn't me - I think whoever it was thought it would be fun to
impersonate me :-)

No impersonation just me and the Rambo wannabes bore the pants of me. It is
all rather childish.

Mxsmanic wrote:
kontiki writes:

That's because you have been indoctrinated to fear firearms and
that no "good' person should ever need one and they are 'dangerous'.

Not so. The reality is that there is generally no indoctrination at all
concerning firearms in countries where they are not common. Indeed, the
greatest exposure to firearms for people in many countries is American motion
pictures, which regularly feature gunplay (and hardly indoctrinate against
it).

Most people in most countries know very little about firearms, apart from the
fact that they are normally used for hunting or killing people. Those who
aren't interested in hunting or killing people aren't interested in firearms.
And while the notion of someone in the countryside having a firearm for
hunting isn't necessarily that repulsive, the notion of someone in the city
carrying one (and the implication that it is intended to kill people, not
food) is naturally repulsive to most people, in the same way that murder is
repulsive.


Yay!! Not only do we finally agree on something but you're actually
making a whole lot of sense

I have only seen a couple of .22s in real life and never fired anything.
There's just no need to have a firearm for the average person,
especially in town.

A "locked away" gun is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Not if you have time to anticipate its use, which would be the case in the
vast majority of scenarios.

And seeing as here you get in a whole world of trouble for just winging
someone, having a handgun readily available would get you locked up
quick smart!!

This link he
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/topic/stor...ectid=10120194

Is about the 2 1/2 years a farmer spent defending himself in court for
shooting a guy who was trying to steal his farmbike. The thief didn't
die, but the farmer got charged...
Over here it is **not** a right to bear arms, rather a priviledge, and
the Police take it VERY seriously who has a firearms license. Many times
I have heard people say that the fact Americans have got this 'right to
bear arms' business drummed into them is the greatest barrier to
effective gun control measures.


Let me tell you it is the person holding the firearm that is
dangerous, and if it were not a pistol it could be a knife,
a club or a bomb or even bare hands.

Only one of these works at a distance without harm to the bearer.

As long as the world is full of 'bad' people it is up to 'good'
people to be ready to protect themselves and others.

The United States isn't full of bad people, but it is certainly full of guns.

And the idea that the population is comfortable with the idea almost
scares me more than the thought of the guns themselves!

I heard one commentator over here point out after the last US school
shooting recently that if guns were as readily available here to the
sort of people who shoot up schools, we'd have the same thing happen
here. It's only the fact that angry young men have substantially more
difficulty laying their hands on the firearms that prevents tragedies
like that from occurring here.

Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:

What is it with Americans and bloody guns???

I think it has much to do with a frontier tradition of sorts. Much of the
early history of the United States is filled with pioneering efforts to tame
the wilderness, and when you're out in the wilderness a firearm can be a very
useful thing, for protection from animals or for hunting food. The "rugged
individualism" developed in this way survives today as an independence that
some express through a desire to possess firearms (sometimes developing into
paranoia).


Ahh, I see. That makes sense...

The biggest problem in the U.S. is not the widespread presence of firearms,
but the combined widespread fascination with firearms _and_ with violence.
The Swiss have plenty of firearms, but they are not violent; and many
countries have a history of violence but not necessarily widespread ownership
of firearms. It's when you put the two together that weirdness ensues. See
_Bowling for Columbine_ for examples of the weirdness.

I have been meaning to watch that...

I understand that there are quite a few people in this country with
firearms - farmers, hunters, etc. We very very seldom hear of
shootings, certainly not deliberate ones. I also understand other
countries with similar numbers of guns per capita have a much worse gun
problem than us, so it must be a cultural thing...


I personally don't see any reason to have a firearm anywhere (much less in an
airplane or hangar) except under the most restricted circumstances, but I know
that there's no arguing with the many Americans who love their guns.

Certainly not in an airplane !!!! That's just bizarre, in my opinion

kontiki wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote:
kontiki writes:


I'd rather live in place full of only 'good' people, all of
whom own firearms than a place with one 'bad' person with
a gun and all the other 'good' people have none.


Fortunately, that type of choice rarely has to be made.

However it is the goal of so many politicians in this country
to attempt to completely disarm the populace (for a number
of varied and even self serving reasons). However they
fail to grasp the fact that, by definition, criminals do
not obey laws so only law abiding people would be disarmed.

There are also several instances where, in period of crisis
and widespead lawlessness (hurricanes, riots) the businesses
and homes protected by individuals with firearms were the
only ones not looted.

Like it or not, you must accept the fact that your property
is is only yours if you are capable of keeping someone else
from taking it. In times of calm and prosperity we relegate
the task of protecting ourselves and our property to a police
force. When the SHTF though it will only be the individuals
themselves to assume the responsibility as there will not be
enough police to go around. One is either willing and prepared
to accept that ultimate responsibility or one is not.


Those arguments are usually the ones I hear levelled against advocates
of gun control. Think about this though - IMHO it is the sheer fact
that guns are such a part of the society that they are present to be
used by criminals. If guns were controlled then there would be far
fewer for the crims to lay their hands on.

chris wrote:


I suppose you leave your guns loaded too??

AFAIK you can't even get a handgun over here without great difficulty -
we sure as hell don't want a bunch of people running around with guns!!

You freakin' whimp.

chris wrote:
If guns were controlled then there would be far
fewer for the crims to lay their hands on.


Excuse me, but guns *are* controlled already. In fact,
we have laws for every conceivable act, and now... even
mere thought. But guess what? people still commit crimes.
Damn those criminals, they just don't want to play
along like good blokews and obey, eh?

The fact is that you live in a country where rights are
"bestowed" upon the gracious people by the police...
or politicians. In this country rights are natural...
that is a concept that is not understood for most people
of the world because they have never known it.

In article ,
kontiki wrote:

If guns were controlled then there would be far
fewer for the crims to lay their hands on.

Excuse me, but guns *are* controlled already.

nah. If you want REAL control, then you'd have to go
and collect all the guns out there. Good luck doing that!

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

chris wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
Chris wrote:
"kontiki" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:

Wow, the thought of having firearms that aren't locked away just
worries me. Here as I understand it the police won't allow you a
firearms license without showing them you have them safely locked away
in some sort of safe, and if they were to find out you kept your gun
in your hangar / aeroplane they'd go ballistic!

That's because you have been indoctrinated to fear firearms and
that no "good' person should ever need one and they are 'dangerous'.
A "locked away" gun is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Let me tell you it is the person holding the firearm that is
dangerous, and if it were not a pistol it could be a knife,
a club or a bomb or even bare hands.

As long as the world is full of 'bad' people it is up to 'good'
people to be ready to protect themselves and others.

Yawn, Yawn, Yawn!

Don't worry, we'll even protect ignorant folk such as yourself.

Hey, that wasn't me - I think whoever it was thought it would be fun to
impersonate me :-)

Anyhow, i don't see the point of handguns. Neither do the police in
this country. Why? At least with a rifle you can go hunting, but all
handgun, or anything automatic, is good for is killing people. Why the
hell would anyone be comfortable with the general population running
around with weapons like that?

Hunting is one one use for firearms. Self-protection is another use and
that unfortunately sometimes involves killing people and that is the
purpose of handguns (although many are great for hunting as well).

Why would you want the general population running around defenseless
when the criminals are armed (with knives if not guns).


All this talk of protecting yourself smells like bull**** to me - I
can't see any time when it is acceptable for a person to take anothers'
life... And when I hear that you can get a permit to carry a concealed
handgun - please tell me that's not true???

It is absolutely true. I've had such a permit for nearly 30 years. If
someone attempts to take my life or the life of a family member, it is
absolutely right for me to take their life. It is not only acceptable,
I'm morally obligated to do so.

Matt

chris wrote:
kontiki wrote:
chris wrote:

Wow, the thought of having firearms that aren't locked away just
worries me. Here as I understand it the police won't allow you a
firearms license without showing them you have them safely locked away
in some sort of safe, and if they were to find out you kept your gun
in your hangar / aeroplane they'd go ballistic!


That's because you have been indoctrinated to fear firearms and
that no "good' person should ever need one and they are 'dangerous'.
A "locked away" gun is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog.

Let me tell you it is the person holding the firearm that is
dangerous, and if it were not a pistol it could be a knife,
a club or a bomb or even bare hands.

As long as the world is full of 'bad' people it is up to 'good'
people to be ready to protect themselves and others.


Oh my God! Please tell me you don't actually believe that??

I suppose you leave your guns loaded too??

AFAIK you can't even get a handgun over here without great difficulty -
we sure as hell don't want a bunch of people running around with guns!!

I'm glad you are "over there" and I'm over here. As long as you are
happy, stay there. I'm happy here and will stay here. I'm quite
comfortably knowing that at least 50% of my neighbors are well armed
(the last statistics I heard for PA). Fortunately, I live in a rural
area where this isn't likely to happen, but if a band of terrorists came
through here, I wouldn't need to call the police and wait. I'd just
call a few neighbors and load my weapons.


Matt