Can they do this? Restrict airport to IFR traffic only?

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:02:21 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in ::


Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from
filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR.

There's nothing stopping VFR pilots from filing an IFR flight plan,
but the FAR requirement* for the PIC to be instrument rated and
current.


*

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....1.1.2&idno=14
§ 61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations
...
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a
civil aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the
minimums prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

(1) The appropriate aircraft category, class, type (if required),
and instrument rating on that person's pilot certificate for any
airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift being flown;

But


http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?

"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...


Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from
filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR.
This would further add to the congestion.


Well, nothing except the FARs 61.3
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:

Limited discrimination is not restricted under AIP terms... this is for a
set period during periods of abnormally high traffic... there are various
ways to restrict traffic flow... if this were a permanent restriction.. then
there may be arguments.

This happens all the time when a major aviation convention is in a certain
area. AOPA, SnF, NBAA, etc.

Another way to restrict traffic is to require Prior Approval or a
reservation slot for arrival. Some aircraft can be guaranteed a parking
spot.. others must only drop pax, gas and go..

BT

As you can readily discern, the cause of the closure is apparently
economically based (as opposed to safety based) due to limited
aircraft parking facilities available on the airport. My question is,
why should VFR operations be banned in favor of IFR operations if
discrimination is forbidden under AIP agreement contract terms?

If Friedman Memorial Airport has not received any AIP funding within
the last 20 years, my question is moot, but that's unlikely. The
prime qualification for employment as an airport manager is the
ability to successfully write AIP grant proposals.

wrote in message ups.com...
Can they close an airport to all VFR traffic? This is what they're
doing at Friedman Memorial Airport at Hailey, Idaho [HLE].

Link to the article:
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...&ID=2005102705


Instrument conditions prevail? Class B is sorta IFR like...

"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message
news:KmU9e.2946$Xg.1033@okepread02...

"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...


Also, if the weather is VFR, there is nothing stopping us VFR pilots from
filing an IFR flight plan and flying in, as long as we maintain VFR.
This would further add to the congestion.


Well, nothing except the FARs 61.3
(e) Instrument rating. No person may act as pilot in command of a civil
aircraft under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR flight unless that person holds:



It looks like the FAR you listed specifically says "IFR" or "weather less
than VFR".
If the weather is VFR (as I stated) then you only need a safety pilot, who
does not need to be instrument rated.
Otherwise, how do you train for IFR? Always have an instrument rated safety
pilot?

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

As you can readily discern, the cause of the closure is apparently
economically based (as opposed to safety based) due to limited
aircraft parking facilities available on the airport. My question is,
why should VFR operations be banned in favor of IFR operations if
discrimination is forbidden under AIP agreement contract terms?

If Friedman Memorial Airport has not received any AIP funding within
the last 20 years, my question is moot, but that's unlikely. The
prime qualification for employment as an airport manager is the
ability to successfully write AIP grant proposals.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:06:48 -0700, "BTIZ"
wrote in XtV9e.15984$%c1.13283@fed1read05::

Limited discrimination is not restricted under AIP terms...

I was unable to locate the document(s) governing AIP terms, but I did
find the section I had in mind (included below). It doesn't seem to
address what is happening in Idaho however.

this is for a set period during periods of abnormally high traffic...

Yes. That's what the article indicates.

there are various ways to restrict traffic flow... if this were a
permanent restriction.. then there may be arguments.

Are you familiar with other incidents of similar traffic restrictions
using IFR flight as the criterion?

This happens all the time when a major aviation convention is in a certain
area. AOPA, SnF, NBAA, etc.

When an airport is unable to accommodate the traffic, ATC has various
methods of restricting the flow, but I've never seen the requirement
for an IFR flight plan in VMC used to govern traffic flow.

Another way to restrict traffic is to require Prior Approval or a
reservation slot for arrival. Some aircraft can be guaranteed a parking
spot.. others must only drop pax, gas and go..

BT



================================================
United State Code
TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
SUBTITLE VII - AVIATION PROGRAMS
PART B - AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT AND NOISE
CHAPTER 471 - AIRPORT DEVELOPMENT

SUBCHAPTER I - AIRPORT IMPROVEMENT

Sec. 47101. Policies

(a) General. - It is the policy of the United States -
(1) that the safe operation of the airport and airway system
is the highest aviation priority;
....

9) that artificial restrictions on airport capacity -

(A) are not in the public interest;

(B) should be imposed to alleviate air traffic delays
only after other reasonably available and less
burdensome alternatives have been tried; and

(C) should not discriminate unjustly between categories
and classes of aircraft; ...

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?



That's the beautiful part of instrument training.
If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on
a trip.
You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC.
One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC.
Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote in
::


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?



That's the beautiful part of instrument training.
If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on
a trip.
You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC.
One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC.
Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that.


Being instrument rated, I am aware of practice instrument approaches
in VMC. But does ATC consider them as being conducted in under IFR or
VFR regulations? That is my point.

Perhaps one of the ATC professionals among the readership of this
newsgroup is will be able to cite the relevant FAA Order governing
this.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Can they close an airport to all VFR traffic? This is what they're
doing at Friedman Memorial Airport at Hailey, Idaho [HLE].

Link to the article:
http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?...&ID=2005102705

I'm obstinate enough to make a "precautionary landing due to rough engine"
just to tweak these idiots... Too bad I don't make it to Idaho very often.

If someone found the real story, I'd wager that it comes down to the fact
that IFR aircraft, particularly turbines, put a lot more $$ in FBO pockets
than the typical light aircraft that is VFR only. This is probably
another chapter in the ongoing story where FBO's and airport authorities
make life difficult and/or expensive for light aircraft in order to run them
off busy airports in order to increase the number of corporate aircraft
based at the field. We've got at least 2 airfields in the Atlanta area that
are suffering from this plight. The corporate guys don't realize that
having all the light aircraft owners around the field at odd hours and on
weekends is one of the things that reduces or eliminates the need for more
formal and expensive airport security.

KB

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:48:00 -0700, "mindenpilot"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.5&idno=14
§ 91.109 Flight instruction; Simulated instrument flight and
certain flight tests.
...
(b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument
flight unless-

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who
possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and
class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.

seems to permit Simulated instrument flight in VMC without mention of
the PIC having an instrument rating on his pilot certificate. The
question then becomes, is Simulated instrument flight in VMC conducted
under VFR or IFR?



That's the beautiful part of instrument training.
If you have a buddy working on his rating, too, you can both log PIC time on
a trip.
You'd fly it IFR. Of course, it would have to be in VMC.
One way, you're under the hood (logging it as hood time), he's logging PIC.
Then you switch on the way back. Can't beat that.

If neither of you are instrument rated and current you would still be
afoul of 61.3 and you *cannot* fly it IFR. Non-IMC practice
approaches are flown VFR, thus the requirement for the safety pilot to
look out for other traffic and ensure you don't violate cloud
separation, etc. Which also answers Larry's question regarding
simulated flight - it's VFR. If I had a nickel for every time
approach has told me "Maintain VFR at all times at or above two
thousand five hundred until established, cleared GPS 23 approach"...