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automotive parts on airplane engines
Automotive alternators are sometimes installed on certified airplanes.
Are automotive (or any other type) starters ever used on a certified engine. For instance, is there a Delco automotive equivalent to the starter on a C85? Thanks, Wallace |
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Wallace Berry wrote in message ...
Automotive alternators are sometimes installed on certified airplanes. Are automotive (or any other type) starters ever used on a certified engine. For instance, is there a Delco automotive equivalent to the starter on a C85? Thanks, Wallace The statute of limitations expired, so yes, I have had a C-85 generator rebuilt at an auto shop several times, made a nifty landing light flasher for about 8 bucks with parts from Pep Boys and know of others that have used auto parts. Now someone is going to come along and say that if you do and something happens and they find non-approved parts on your plane, you could get in trouble. I always had more important things to worry about. I'm sure that you could find an automotive starter to fit at NAPA. Or let the government inspect the one you want and pay 4.329 to 8.784 times more. Chances are that if you crash-land off airport, an FAA type will show up and merely check your pilot's certificate, medical and airworthiness certificate......in fact I'm absolutely sure of it...at least in one instance. I doubt that anyone would even think of checking to see if your starter was "approved." All you have to say in the rare event they did was: "That's the one that was on there when I bought the plane." Make sure you don't log an unapproved part. KJSDCAUSA |
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"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message news I remember years ago my AI stating that "starters are NOT PMA equipment." This implies that ther is really no such thing as a "certified starter." I don't believe it. |
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Wallace Berry wrote in message ...
In article , (Ken Sandyeggo) wrote: Wallace Berry wrote in message ... Automotive alternators are sometimes installed on certified airplanes. Are automotive (or any other type) starters ever used on a certified engine. For instance, is there a Delco automotive equivalent to the starter on a C85? Thanks, Wallace The statute of limitations expired, so yes, I have had a C-85 generator rebuilt at an auto shop several times, made a nifty landing light flasher for about 8 bucks with parts from Pep Boys and know of others that have used auto parts. Now someone is going to come along and say that if you do and something happens and they find non-approved parts on your plane, you could get in trouble. I always had more important things to worry about. I'm sure that you could find an automotive starter to fit at NAPA. Or let the government inspect the one you want and pay 4.329 to 8.784 times more. Chances are that if you crash-land off airport, an FAA type will show up and merely check your pilot's certificate, medical and airworthiness certificate......in fact I'm absolutely sure of it...at least in one instance. I doubt that anyone would even think of checking to see if your starter was "approved." All you have to say in the rare event they did was: "That's the one that was on there when I bought the plane." Make sure you don't log an unapproved part. KJSDCAUSA Thanks for the reply. I can probably find the correct certified starter for my C-85 used. However, I may very well look into trying to match up an auto starter. My C-85 is actually not a "certified" engine anymore as it has high compression pistons and a high performance cam. It is on my Stits SA6b which is obviously a plans built aircraft. For now I'm using the "Hemingway" starter. Didn't know for sure it was in an experimental...I know, "rec.aviation homebuilt." You can use anything you want on an experimental, log it and be legal. KJSDCAUSA |
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:32:57 -0500, Wallace Berry
wrote: Thanks for the reply. I can probably find the correct certified starter for my C-85 used. However, I may very well look into trying to match up an auto starter. My C-85 is actually not a "certified" engine anymore as it has high compression pistons and a high performance cam. It is on my Stits SA6b which is obviously a plans built aircraft. For now I'm using the "Hemingway" starter. I think you'll have trouble with the generator, and very possibly the starter as well. Since the units are gear-driven, the cases have to have the appropriate hardware for mounting to the aircraft engine. If you've got a pull-start C-85, I suspect your chances of finding an automotive replacement are even lower. But if you do, pullleeeze let me know. The units on my C-85 aren't of the best of shape, and I'd love to pick up something automotive that'll work. On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:40:55 -0500, Big John wrote: ]] Owned a shop where we wholesale repaired auto starters and generators ]] some years ago. Used to get a number or pilots bringing in their ]] starter for repair. Word of mouth got around. When I took my C-85's generator to the local auto electric rebuilder, the shop guy took a look at it and said, "DON'T tell me what that came off of." His management didn't allow him to work on aviation units. I told him it was from an "Off Road Vehicle" and he was satisfied. One bit of warning, the auto and aviation regulators look very similar, but apparently don't work the same. The aviation regulator has the three terminals unevenly spaced, rather than evenly spaced like the automotive units. When my airplane wouldn't charge, I replaced my regulator with an automotive one before going through the work to remove the generator. I eventually had the generator rebuilt, but when I put it on the airplane, I still didn't get a charge until I restored the original aircraft regulator. Ron Wanttaja |
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I remember years ago my AI stating that "starters are NOT PMA
equipment." This implies that ther is really no such thing as a "certified starter." Sounds like an Old AI tale. If he meant OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) then he is most certainly wrong. Whatever starter the engine maker approved is the proper starter for that engine and is therefore approved or if you will certified. It will have a part number assigned by the engine maker no matter what number the starter manufacturer may have given it. Other starters may work by they ain't legal. PMA means Parts Manufacturing Authority and is the approval that after market makers of parts must get to have approved parts legally capable of being installed on approved equipment. John Dupre' John Dupre' |
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In article ,
Ron Wanttaja wrote: I think you'll have trouble with the generator, and very possibly the starter as well. Since the units are gear-driven, the cases have to have the appropriate hardware for mounting to the aircraft engine. If you've got a pull-start C-85, I suspect your chances of finding an automotive replacement are even lower. But if you do, pullleeeze let me know. The units on my C-85 aren't of the best of shape, and I'd love to pick up something automotive that'll work. On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:40:55 -0500, Big John wrote: ]] Owned a shop where we wholesale repaired auto starters and generators ]] some years ago. Used to get a number or pilots bringing in their ]] starter for repair. Word of mouth got around. When I took my C-85's generator to the local auto electric rebuilder, the shop guy took a look at it and said, "DON'T tell me what that came off of." His management didn't allow him to work on aviation units. I told him it was from an "Off Road Vehicle" and he was satisfied. One bit of warning, the auto and aviation regulators look very similar, but apparently don't work the same. The aviation regulator has the three terminals unevenly spaced, rather than evenly spaced like the automotive units. When my airplane wouldn't charge, I replaced my regulator with an automotive one before going through the work to remove the generator. I eventually had the generator rebuilt, but when I put it on the airplane, I still didn't get a charge until I restored the original aircraft regulator. Ron Wanttaja Thanks for the comments and info. You are almost certainly right about the slim chance of finding a bolt on automotive replacement for an aircraft starter. I also doubt that one could easily build a workable adapter. I'm extremely ignorant of the particulars of aircraft starters, but I've learned a bit in the last few days. I can see that my original question was naive to say the least. It's just that aircraft and automotive (and lawnmower for that matter) starters look similar and are usually made by the same companies. For my particular application, I wasn't planning on installing a generator.The weight of a starter is just enough ballast up front to take care of C of G concerns (passenger, bags, fuel burn interaction) in my little plane. I only need the starter to work two or three times at most during a day. The battery can be charged overnight. My C-85 starts pretty easy by hand propping if I'm careful not to flood it. I'll keep on investigating the possibility that there is some automotive starter(s) out there that is the parent of the starter(s) used on C-85s. Even if it turns out that there is such a beast, it probably has been out of production since 1950. Fly safe, Wallace Glasflugel H301 N301BW Stits SA6b N5423M |
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