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  #11  
Old July 16th 03, 08:03 PM
Bud
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In VMC it's no big deal. In IMC with terrain if I didn't get an
immediate response (or the freq was busy) I'd invoke 91.3 and
intercept. There have been fatalities from people crossing the loc
and hitting terrain. I'd rather not be one.


Funny you bring that up...there's an airport with an ILS in a 3800' MVA that
we vector to final for all the time. When issuing a base leg turn, the
controllers tell the aircraft, "if no instructions are received prior to
reaching the localizer, intercept the localizer inbound and advise." The
airport is less than 5 miles from a 9500' MVA and the base leg points the
aircraft right at the Olympic Mountains! So in that instance, since the
pilot was instructed to intercept the LOC, that's what I'd expect.
Elsewhere, I'd just expect the pilot to say something like Scott wrote,
"Approach, N12345, do you want us to join the localizer?"

I don't take it as sarcastic if an aircraft advises me they're flying
thought the localizer. Most of my vectors to final are to a PAR or ACLS FAC
so if I make a late turn to final I usually have some final controller
yelling at me from across the room. If you have to advise me you're through
the FAC it's probably too late and I was probably busy with something else
and missed your turn to final since we're supposed to tell the aircraft when
to expect a vector across the FAC.

from 7110.65 (http://www2.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0509.html#5-9-3):
5-9-3. VECTORS ACROSS FINAL APPROACH COURSE

Inform the aircraft whenever a vector will take it across the final approach
course and state the reason for such action.

NOTE-
In the event you are unable to so inform the aircraft, the pilot is not
expected to turn inbound on the final approach course unless approach
clearance has been issued.

PHRASEOLOGY-
EXPECT VECTORS ACROSS FINAL FOR (purpose).

EXAMPLE-
"EXPECT VECTORS ACROSS FINAL FOR SPACING."

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Final Approach Course Interception, Para 5-9-2.


73,
Bud
--------------------------------------------------------------
Heather's Doula Page
www.navydoula.com

And God Said, "Let there be electromagnetic radiation with a
wavelength range of 400nm to 700nm that travels with a speed
of about 186,281 miles per second in a vacuum."


  #12  
Old July 17th 03, 01:51 AM
Sydney Hoeltzli
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Bud wrote:

I don't take it as sarcastic if an aircraft advises me they're flying
thought the localizer.


I haven't had it taken as sarcastic if I advise I'm through
the localizer. Statement of fact. That's where I am.

I have had it taken as sarcastic if I ask "do you want me to
join the localizer?" when I'm already through it. "Help me out
here, did I tell you to join the localizer? If I want you to
join the localizer, I'll tell you to join the localizer"

Dunno why, exactly. I do know the controller has goofed if he
hasn't advised me that I'll be vectored across prior to blowing
me through it. I suppose some take it as rubbing in the mistake,
even if it's just intended as an enquiry. I suppose others
think they did advise me "vector through the localizer for
spacing", and maybe they did and were blocked, or I missed it,
who knows.

Cheers,
Sydney

  #13  
Old July 18th 03, 08:01 PM
Andrew Gideon
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Bob Gardner wrote:

I don't see it as sarcasm....I've said the same thing hundreds of times.


Right. The controller might have some reason for you to not join at the
moment. That's occurred to me a few times - although I believe that I was
given a head's up on this from the controller each of those times.

- Andrew

  #14  
Old July 20th 03, 01:56 PM
Tom Fleischman
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In article , Andrew Gideon
wrote:

Bob Gardner wrote:

I don't see it as sarcasm....I've said the same thing hundreds of times.


Right. The controller might have some reason for you to not join at the
moment. That's occurred to me a few times - although I believe that I was
given a head's up on this from the controller each of those times.


Yes, I've been told on several occasions, "Vectors through the final
approach course for faster traffic behing you", and then been vectored
back around to join the localizer from the other side.
 




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