Columbia crash...opinions

Mike Granby wrote:

Looks like he pitched up for his soft-field takeoff, and lost
directional control (through too much right rudder?) perhaps because he
lost his sight picture over the raised nose. He then ended up heading
towards the guys you see diving out of the way, so he had a choice
between staying low and taking their heads off with the prop, or
climbing over them and getting out of ground effect, after which he was
pretty much doomed.

I agree. Also, it seemed to me that the minute he lost directional
control, the option of pulling power back to idle and aborting the takeoff
would have resulted in a bent aircraft.

--
Peter

On 2006-03-29, Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

Maybe the passenger was interfering with the rudders? He was in quite
a slip as he went over the people on the ground. You could imagine
someone turning around to look into the back seat pressing or blocking
the rudder in an effort to twist around.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

On 03/29/06 15:17, Ben Jackson wrote:
On 2006-03-29, Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

Maybe the passenger was interfering with the rudders? He was in quite
a slip as he went over the people on the ground. You could imagine
someone turning around to look into the back seat pressing or blocking
the rudder in an effort to twist around.


Hmmm, maybe. The person in the right seat was a small woman. I would think
the pilot would be able to come up with enough force to lift that woman with
his one leg.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Kobra wrote:
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't have
been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed first.

Very sad,

Kobra



Speed. Looks like a very short takeoff without adequate flying speed.
The pilot may have felt he was about to plow the people in front, and
tried to get it off before it was ready. He actually did get it off,
but low and out of control.

"Kobra" wrote in message
...
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't
have been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed
first.

Very sad,

Kobra

Looks like a loss of directional control on takeoff.

The pilot *might* have saved things by using left brake, rudder, and aileron
to avoid the pedestrians, but most of us (including myself) are not
practiced up on abrupt maneuvers at *almost* flying speed.

Once he lifted off, I think he was afraid to bank the aircraft and used
rudder to either bring the aircraft back to the runway centerline OR to make
a slight turn into the wind. That, or he completely forgot about the rudder
and P-factor put him into uncoordinated flight. He'd have done much better
keeping the airplane in coordinated flight - without the excess drag caused
by that slip, he might have reached a managable speed and flown away...
KB

Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving. I don't know enough about
Cessnas to say if this is very likely, and I can't tell from the video
whether any aileron input is noticable.

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...
Someone elsewhere suggested that the gust lock might have been in
place, as you don't see the ailerons moving. I don't know enough about
Cessnas to say if this is very likely, and I can't tell from the video
whether any aileron input is noticable.

Unlikely if it is OEM gust lock since it would block the key for starter and
magnetoes.

Howard

Look again, front seat passenger (adult), back seat passenger (adult male)
and I'm guessing that a litter with a medical patient behind the pilot, look
at the oxygen support and other medical supplies.

He was obviously heavy and not enough power available.
BT

"Kobra" wrote in message
...
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't
have been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed
first.

Very sad,

Kobra

"Kobra" wrote in message
...
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't
have been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed
first.

Very sad,

Kobra
Looks to me like maybe an aft C.G. condition....
It appears the pilot never had control of the airplane.

Frank

Probably a couple a factors going on here...but impossible to tell just from
a video.

1. Weight
2. CG problem..probably aft...which would make rudder potentially worthless
3. High altitude and hot.....
4. Grass strip....lengthening takeoff roll.

My guess is the plane was probably over weight with a rearward CG. This
would explain the nose up attitude and yawing of the aircraft. In addition,
I don't think he lost dirrectional control...he never had it.

Perhaps he is always used to rotating at 60 kts. Throw in the above factors
and not only will the plane not fly....but it will be difficult to control.
His needed rotating speed adjust for weight, altitude, temp, winds, may have
been much higher....grass strip wouldn't help matters either.

JMHO

One last thing....as soon as the plane lifts off the ground the right wing
dips...this would tell me that for whatever reason he had insufficient
airspeed to make the wing generate lift.

"Kobra" wrote in message
...
Check this clip out. What does everyone think happened here?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZWC2XJYgcJU

It looks like a 182, so it had *some* muscle.

I think it must have been hot, maybe a high elevation, loaded with fuel,
people and equipment. But one passenger was a small boy so he couldn't
have been very heavy.

It also looks like a soft-field technique that was poorly executed and he
lost directional control and didn't lower the nose to build airspeed
first.

Very sad,

Kobra