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Kobo Aura refresh rate?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 20th 15, 01:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?


Does anybody who is using a Kobo eBook reader to run XCSoar measured its
screen refresh rate? If so, I'm curious to know whether it can match the
usual XCSoar full screen refresh rate of 1 per sec on a WM/WinCE-based
PNA?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #2  
Old June 20th 15, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
David Hirst
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Posts: 44
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

I used a Kobo Mini and XCSoar last season. Its refresh rate is about the same as a PNA but slower than an Android phone. What is 'distinctive' about the e-ink screen is the ghosting you get - there is always a slight shadow of the previous image on the screen. Over time, with enough refreshes, this may disappear but sometimes it's necessary to skip to a (largely white) menu and back just to clear the ghosting. Not ideal but the sunlight readability more than makes up for it.
I've made up a few Kobo Mini / XCSoar /GPS bundles and also found that the screen quality, in terms of its ability to hold high-contrast text without refreshing, is quite variable. I'm hoping that this will improve with further production volumes or bigger screens. Such are the joys of early adoption.
  #3  
Old June 20th 15, 10:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Crabb
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Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

On Saturday, 20 June 2015 01:18:02 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Does anybody who is using a Kobo eBook reader to run XCSoar measured its
screen refresh rate? If so, I'm curious to know whether it can match the
usual XCSoar full screen refresh rate of 1 per sec on a WM/WinCE-based
PNA?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |


I've used the Kobo mini for over a year with Xcsoar, it is very readable in the cockpit in all lighting conditions and any ghosting that happens does not cause any readability issues... I don't notice it when flying. I have put a second kobo on the panel dedicated to airspace watching and final gliding... another whopping £40 down the drain . I'm really impressed with Xcsoar on the kobo - even more impressed when I found out how to get GPS and power into the USB port with Xcsoar 6.8 beta

Paul Crabb
  #4  
Old June 21st 15, 10:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
7C
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Posts: 33
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

On Saturday, 20 June 2015 01:18:02 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Does anybody who is using a Kobo eBook reader to run XCSoar measured its
screen refresh rate? If so, I'm curious to know whether it can match the
usual XCSoar full screen refresh rate of 1 per sec on a WM/WinCE-based
PNA?


Refresh rate isn't really relevant - XCSoar only updates the screen at 1Hz (to match the GPS feed) and all the e-inks can update at about 3Hz or higher.

The only time you notice the display being slower is on menus. But then the processor (at least on the Mini) is faster than all the WinCE devices I've seen which makes up for a lot of that!

Mel
  #5  
Old June 21st 15, 11:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:40:35 -0700, 7C wrote:

On Saturday, 20 June 2015 01:18:02 UTC+1, Martin Gregorie wrote:
Does anybody who is using a Kobo eBook reader to run XCSoar measured
its screen refresh rate? If so, I'm curious to know whether it can
match the usual XCSoar full screen refresh rate of 1 per sec on a
WM/WinCE-based PNA?


Refresh rate isn't really relevant - XCSoar only updates the screen at
1Hz (to match the GPS feed) and all the e-inks can update at about 3Hz
or higher.

There are some, otherwise attractive, ePaper displays that aren't that
fast, (3000 full screen refreshes/hour, 1200 mS/refresh) but that, with a
partial area refresh could squeak in under the second. I wanted to know
if the Kobo also needed to use this sort of trick. Since asking, I've
been sent a link to a video showing that it can do a full-screen refresh
in 500mS or less.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #6  
Old June 21st 15, 02:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

A somewhat related question - has anyone run into problems with a Kobo (Kobo Mini) washing out in direct sunlight due to overheating? I flew with one for the first time in a club glider earlier this month running TopHat on a Kobo Mini. The Kobo was secured via a suction mount to the canopy. I liked it quite a bit, until the display began to become fainter and fainter. At some point, the touch screen became unresponsive. Luckily, I had a backup copy running on my HTC One which worked fine.

Some Googling suggests that some Kobo Minis may have issues with long periods in direct sunlight. Anyone in the gliding community care to comment?

P3
  #7  
Old June 21st 15, 03:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 12
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

I have been using a Kobo Mini with XCSoar for the last two years, and have never had a wash out problem. My wife also uses the same mini as a e-reader at the beach. She sits in direct sun light by the hour, and has not reported any issue.

I find the "ghosting" to be a non-issue in flight. After years of using a PDA I'm just happy I can see the numbers in all flight conditions. And, the entire system was great value for money, less than $100 (in a 40 year old glider).

Gary
  #8  
Old June 21st 15, 08:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 19
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 2:56:42 PM UTC+1, Papa3 wrote:
A somewhat related question - has anyone run into problems with a Kobo (Kobo Mini) washing out in direct sunlight due to overheating? I flew with one for the first time in a club glider earlier this month running TopHat on a Kobo Mini. The Kobo was secured via a suction mount to the canopy. I liked it quite a bit, until the display began to become fainter and fainter. At some point, the touch screen became unresponsive. Luckily, I had a backup copy running on my HTC One which worked fine.

Some Googling suggests that some Kobo Minis may have issues with long periods in direct sunlight. Anyone in the gliding community care to comment?

P3


That's quite feasible. The stated max operating temperature of E-ink displays is low (50C). If you've got no air circulating in the cockpit and the sunlight's shining at right angles to the display, ghosting and eventually fading is possible. High ambient temperatures are less significant, but certainly won't help.

Briefly opening a vent to get some airflow over the display should resolve the problem temporarily, or tilting the display so that the sun's shining at a more oblique angle. Using a Kobo Mini with a white casing and even avoiding using the 'inverse' colour scheme (black infoboxes) might have some effect too.
  #9  
Old June 22nd 15, 08:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Johan Pretorius
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Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:51:22 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 2:56:42 PM UTC+1, Papa3 wrote:
A somewhat related question - has anyone run into problems with a Kobo (Kobo Mini) washing out in direct sunlight due to overheating? I flew with one for the first time in a club glider earlier this month running TopHat on a Kobo Mini. The Kobo was secured via a suction mount to the canopy. I liked it quite a bit, until the display began to become fainter and fainter. At some point, the touch screen became unresponsive. Luckily, I had a backup copy running on my HTC One which worked fine.

Some Googling suggests that some Kobo Minis may have issues with long periods in direct sunlight. Anyone in the gliding community care to comment?

P3


That's quite feasible. The stated max operating temperature of E-ink displays is low (50C). If you've got no air circulating in the cockpit and the sunlight's shining at right angles to the display, ghosting and eventually fading is possible. High ambient temperatures are less significant, but certainly won't help.

Briefly opening a vent to get some airflow over the display should resolve the problem temporarily, or tilting the display so that the sun's shining at a more oblique angle. Using a Kobo Mini with a white casing and even avoiding using the 'inverse' colour scheme (black infoboxes) might have some effect too.


I tried using my Samsung Galaxy S2 to do this job in a club glider (once) and was immediately convinced that I need a different solution. I've looked at using a Kobo for the e-Ink display and battery life, but couldn't think of how to get GPS connected... Can someone (Paul, Gary?) please point me in the right direction? On the internet I found some information from a guy who got all the way to getting XCSoar running in simulator mode because he hadn't connected GPS input.

Also, would you recommend using a Kobo mini or Kobo Touch? I know I wouldn't go for a Kobo Glow, because the backlight is a waste of energy in the cockpit. But compared to the Mini, the Touch has a nice big screen.
  #10  
Old June 22nd 15, 09:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Papa3[_2_]
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Posts: 753
Default Kobo Aura refresh rate?

I recently flew with the TopHat branch of XCSoar on a Kobo mini. The GPS source was a hockey-puck connected through a "Y" USB cable. Here's an example:

http://tophatsoaring.org/Kobo.html

If I didn't already have a ClearNav in my racing glider and I was looking for a low-cost solution, I would go with TopHat hands-down over other options I've flown with. It's very much optimized for XC/Racing and has a lot less "stuff" going on. I was up and running from scratch after watching 1 or 2 tutorials and spending 10 minutes with someone who has flown with it. Really pretty slick.

My son and I also loaded TopHat on two Android devices (an HTC One and a Samsung Galaxy S5), so we had 3 versions running in the glider (Grob). I thought it was more than adequate on the S5-less so on the HTC One. With the phone in Airplane mode and an external USB battery, we had a pretty nice, self-contained Nav and logging unit.

Erik Mann
P3


On Monday, June 22, 2015 at 3:37:32 PM UTC-4, Johan Pretorius wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:51:22 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 2:56:42 PM UTC+1, Papa3 wrote:
A somewhat related question - has anyone run into problems with a Kobo (Kobo Mini) washing out in direct sunlight due to overheating? I flew with one for the first time in a club glider earlier this month running TopHat on a Kobo Mini. The Kobo was secured via a suction mount to the canopy. I liked it quite a bit, until the display began to become fainter and fainter. At some point, the touch screen became unresponsive. Luckily, I had a backup copy running on my HTC One which worked fine.

Some Googling suggests that some Kobo Minis may have issues with long periods in direct sunlight. Anyone in the gliding community care to comment?

P3


I tried using my Samsung Galaxy S2 to do this job in a club glider (once) and was immediately convinced that I need a different solution. I've looked at using a Kobo for the e-Ink display and battery life, but couldn't think of how to get GPS connected... Can someone (Paul, Gary?) please point me in the right direction? O


Also, would you recommend using a Kobo mini or Kobo Touch? I know I wouldn't go for a Kobo Glow, because the backlight is a waste of energy in the cockpit. But compared to the Mini, the Touch has a nice big screen.

 




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