LX Era 80 vs S80/S100

On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 12:44:55 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading my SDI C4 e-vario this winter in my DG-100. With limited space, I would be going for an 80mm one.

I've seen some different options, like the LX S80/S100 and Era 80, but fail to see many differences.

For what I do know from the cumulus-soaring.com comparison page is that the Era 80 has GPS built in, is IGC approved and has a built in backup battery. Also, the Era seems to support 1 needle at a time, while the S80/S100 can do netto/relative/McCready needles at the same time.

Would you suggest one above the other? Any other features to compare that I'm missing?

Help would be appreciated!

I have also been considering trading out my trusty CAI302 for an S80 or Era.. One question I have is the CAI302 makes a giddy-up sound if I get to slow while thermalling. Does either of these instruments do that? I think it is an important safety feature.

On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 6:59:44 AM UTC-7, Jonathan Foster wrote:
On Wednesday, October 2, 2019 at 12:44:55 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading my SDI C4 e-vario this winter in my DG-100. With limited space, I would be going for an 80mm one.

I've seen some different options, like the LX S80/S100 and Era 80, but fail to see many differences.

For what I do know from the cumulus-soaring.com comparison page is that the Era 80 has GPS built in, is IGC approved and has a built in backup battery. Also, the Era seems to support 1 needle at a time, while the S80/S100 can do netto/relative/McCready needles at the same time.

Would you suggest one above the other? Any other features to compare that I'm missing?

Help would be appreciated!

Not familiar with the Era, but have used LXNAV gear for many years now. Very impressed with their responsive factory answers to any questions I've had.

I have the LX9000 with V9 vario, which does have a voice-type stall warning.. On occasion, she's reminded me of my sometimes erratic thermaling technique. According to the user manual (available on LXNAV website), the S80 has similar.

Sounds like nagging. I fly to get away from that!

I have my S100 set to GPS auto-mode w/ the initial gyro sensing your pull up and turn to lift. It beats my PDA in switching every time. It switches within the first 1/4 turn of the circle to "climb" mode and quickly switches back to "cruise" mode when leaving the circle.

I have the Netto displayed in numeric form in "cruise". It works very well and the 4-second averager setting feels about right.
Netto displayed on your primary vario is a wonderful tool for XC flight.


I never touch the unit or switch anything during flight and have not felt like I needed to. It's completely in tune and switches between flight modes quickly.

Nonetheless, you guys have me considering the dedicated control stick. I'm not in love with my stock grip. The stock grip seems like it's welded on there. Is removal difficult?

I have the S100 set to my TE probe (no electronic compensation) and it's now a very true and reliable device. I highly recommend the S100. It's a great do-everything vario and will improve your efficiency in flight.

On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 09:02:28 UTC+1, Kenz Dale wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

This is a commercial issue not an engineering issue. I believe all these devices have the necessary sensors to provide an AHRS - the payment is for the license to switch it on.

I have just upgraded my LX 9000 - I traded in the previous one to LX and paid an upgrade price. Who knows how the cost to upgrade would have compared if I had had an LX Navigation device instead?

I know two people who bought LX Navigation LX 10k's. Neither could be got to work and they eventually had to change to something different. This makes me dubious about the product development quality at LX Navigation, whereas I have not heard of problems like that with LX Nav equipment in the last few years.

Hi,

The LXNAV S8, S80, S10 and S100 variometers are the best varios available. They are well designed and more reliable than any other currently available variometer. The built-in AHRS hardware makes them easy to install and reliable. LXNAV developed the AHRS hardware - they didn't tack-on an external AHRS unit. The varios fully replace older vario systems like the Cambridge 302/303 system, ILEC SN10, etc. They are available in either 57mm or 80mm sizes with exactly the same functionality in either size. And they use a single instrument hole instead of 2. They offer excellent variometer functions as well as waypoint and task navigation, FLARM and ADS-B traffic display and warnings, and final glide calculations. They also have built-in g-meters as standard. Also, with the current exchange rates, you can get an S8-Club speed-to-fly variometer for $870. That is much lower cost than previous speed-to-fly variometers. I also like that you can buy a "club" version with the same hardware and add software features easily at any time in the future. Also, the AHRS enable is a software enable that can be done easily at any time. They work great with FLARM units and Naviter Oudie units too. I very highly recommend them. I do sell them, but I also fly with them.

S8, S80, S8-Club, S80-Club
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/stor...product_id=777

S10, S100
https://www.cumulus-soaring.com/stor...product_id=105

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 3:02:28 AM UTC-5, Kenz Dale wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:08:18 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 09:02:28 UTC+1, Kenz Dale wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

This is a commercial issue not an engineering issue. I believe all these devices have the necessary sensors to provide an AHRS - the payment is for the license to switch it on.

I have just upgraded my LX 9000 - I traded in the previous one to LX and paid an upgrade price. Who knows how the cost to upgrade would have compared if I had had an LX Navigation device instead?

I know two people who bought LX Navigation LX 10k's. Neither could be got to work and they eventually had to change to something different. This makes me dubious about the product development quality at LX Navigation, whereas I have not heard of problems like that with LX Nav equipment in the last few years.

You are right that all units have an AHRS built in, but it can only be unlocked with a $800 software unlock code which you punch into your LX Nav. This key code cannot be revoked or transferred, so you cannot take your AHRS with you.

I don't intend to comment as to LX Nav's general reliability or usefulness. AFAICT they have an excellent reputation. And we honestly don't know enough about the problem to state where it's coming from. But from the optic of my experience I only see three possibilities, all of which require a boneheaded situation:

1.) Their internal software is so horrible and made with such copy-pasta spaghetti code that the cost of a fix, no matter how small, is unacceptable
2.) It's a boneheaded product decision that customers don't care about upgradability
3.) It's a boneheaded commercial decision to try to milk customers for every last euro

None of those speak to good management decisions on this part of the product. In fact, they'd be better off to reissue a code to a client for free rather than make them upset that they lost $800 in value because they upgraded to a bigger screen or a better vario. At least that buys them time to fix it, without eating away at the admittedly small market of glider pilots who want an AHRS.

On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 17:16:20 UTC+3, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:08:18 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 09:02:28 UTC+1, Kenz Dale wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

This is a commercial issue not an engineering issue. I believe all these devices have the necessary sensors to provide an AHRS - the payment is for the license to switch it on.

I have just upgraded my LX 9000 - I traded in the previous one to LX and paid an upgrade price. Who knows how the cost to upgrade would have compared if I had had an LX Navigation device instead?

I know two people who bought LX Navigation LX 10k's. Neither could be got to work and they eventually had to change to something different. This makes me dubious about the product development quality at LX Navigation, whereas I have not heard of problems like that with LX Nav equipment in the last few years.

You are right that all units have an AHRS built in, but it can only be unlocked with a $800 software unlock code which you punch into your LX Nav. This key code cannot be revoked or transferred, so you cannot take your AHRS with you.

I don't intend to comment as to LX Nav's general reliability or usefulness. AFAICT they have an excellent reputation. And we honestly don't know enough about the problem to state where it's coming from. But from the optic of my experience I only see three possibilities, all of which require a boneheaded situation:

1.) Their internal software is so horrible and made with such copy-pasta spaghetti code that the cost of a fix, no matter how small, is unacceptable
2.) It's a boneheaded product decision that customers don't care about upgradability
3.) It's a boneheaded commercial decision to try to milk customers for every last euro

None of those speak to good management decisions on this part of the product. In fact, they'd be better off to reissue a code to a client for free rather than make them upset that they lost $800 in value because they upgraded to a bigger screen or a better vario. At least that buys them time to fix it, without eating away at the admittedly small market of glider pilots who want an AHRS.

So why not move the vario (with unlocked AHRS) to new glider? AHRS transferred.

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 10:39:04 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 17:16:20 UTC+3, wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:08:18 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 13 May 2020 09:02:28 UTC+1, Kenz Dale wrote:
On Friday, October 4, 2019 at 9:17:12 AM UTC-4, Turkey Vulture wrote:
I have actually used the s100 in my DG 100 for 1 season. I popped for the AHRS as well. 80mm is the way to go.

This is a huge difference between the two brands. LX Nav does not let you revoke the AHRS key, which translated into normal human speak means that you can't take your AHRS with you. So if you sell your unit to someone else because you want LX Nav's latest and greatest, or just your unit conks out, you're SOL for the $$$ you spent. Every time you get a new model you have to spend $800.

LX Navigation has a separate AHRS module which is portable to new installations.

Frankly, and this is speaking as an embedded guy who's been doing drone autopilot firmware since 2010, LX Nav has destroyed a lot of the value of their product for peeps who want an AHRS. Unless their internal software is a dumpster fire, which is its own problem, fixing this lack of portability is a perfect first task for an intern/junior engineer.

This is a commercial issue not an engineering issue. I believe all these devices have the necessary sensors to provide an AHRS - the payment is for the license to switch it on.

I have just upgraded my LX 9000 - I traded in the previous one to LX and paid an upgrade price. Who knows how the cost to upgrade would have compared if I had had an LX Navigation device instead?

I know two people who bought LX Navigation LX 10k's. Neither could be got to work and they eventually had to change to something different. This makes me dubious about the product development quality at LX Navigation, whereas I have not heard of problems like that with LX Nav equipment in the last few years.

You are right that all units have an AHRS built in, but it can only be unlocked with a $800 software unlock code which you punch into your LX Nav. This key code cannot be revoked or transferred, so you cannot take your AHRS with you.

I don't intend to comment as to LX Nav's general reliability or usefulness. AFAICT they have an excellent reputation. And we honestly don't know enough about the problem to state where it's coming from. But from the optic of my experience I only see three possibilities, all of which require a boneheaded situation:

1.) Their internal software is so horrible and made with such copy-pasta spaghetti code that the cost of a fix, no matter how small, is unacceptable
2.) It's a boneheaded product decision that customers don't care about upgradability
3.) It's a boneheaded commercial decision to try to milk customers for every last euro

None of those speak to good management decisions on this part of the product. In fact, they'd be better off to reissue a code to a client for free rather than make them upset that they lost $800 in value because they upgraded to a bigger screen or a better vario. At least that buys them time to fix it, without eating away at the admittedly small market of glider pilots who want an AHRS.

So why not move the vario (with unlocked AHRS) to new glider? AHRS transferred.

That's an option, but here are my thoughts:

1) I guess I'm not impressed by a company which thinks that I should have to rip out my instrument panel in order to transfer a secret password. There's a lot of risk involved in tearing down a known-working system.
2) My glider's new owner might not appreciate having a hole in the instrument panel rendering the plane inoperable. In fact, I'm guessing that impacts resale value more than the money I save.
3) I might not be changing gliders, but instead am doing a panel upgrade. A $4k upgrade which has the sole purpose of having a larger screen has a lot less appeal when you tell me I need to spend another $800.

I agree there are AHRS workarounds. But the questions are "why should I have to?", "what's the real risk and cost?" and "am I better with another brand?"

The conclusion is that by not being so stingy with a software code LX Nav could treat AHRS customers a little better, avoiding this self-inflicted wound.