Dream Time -- Little help here?

"Jim Fisher" wrote in message
. ..

Just recently I saw a "stormscope" in a magazine devoted to Park and
Recreation Department people. It's designed to allow Park and Rec
directors
to close/open outdoor events when storms get close by.


Not even close in performance to an aviation panel-mount Stormscope or
Strikefinder.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...


What do you see the WSI In Flight system or XMRadio system as giving
the pilot which is significantly greater than CBAV or WeatherClip on a
wireless Palm?

1. Reliable coverage anywhere in the USA

2. Access to the national lightning network to display accurate lightning
strike data

3. Automatic screen updates and thus much less pilot heads-down time

4. Precip tops radar

5. Color display (easier to distinguish between precip levels)

The bottom line should be a much more pilot-friendly interface which should
give more information to the pilot with more reliability and less
effort/less distraction from other pilot tasks. And I think this should
help to make the most critical weather decision of all: What is just precip
and what is a thunderstorm and how do I plan a route with only precip?


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Jay Honeck wrote:

OR (heh, heh, heh...), I can keep the same monthly payment, and get MORE
(bwa-ha-ha!) money, with which to upgrade my woefully out of date panel.

Hi Jay,

You don't fly the plane IFR, and you say everything works. Take the free
mileage out of the working avionics and enjoy it. When things start breaking,
possibly consider upgrading at that time.

Money you sink into avionics goes into a dark hole and never comes out at
resale.

I say keep things simple and use the money for better purposes. I know it
doesn't sound nearly as fun, but someday you might wish you'd done just that!
(Especially when you look back on interest rates and kick yourself for not
buying real estate this year!)

-Ryan
CFI-ASE-AME, CP-ASMEL-IA, CP-RH, AGI

: of usefulness. I disagree with the comments that handhelds are
: sufficient, since cig lighters do die, and a hardmounted antenna does a

: When a cigarette lighter power source dies, presumably there are other
: avionics on board to complete the flight. Also the handheld will have
: batteries to complete the flight.

: On the other hand, when the electrical system dies, all the avionics go out
: except the handheld GPS.

: Therefore a handheld GPS can be more useful and a better safety tool even
: than a panel-mount GPS.

I agree that a handheld is a good backup device, and I think it's a great idea to have
one, and fresh batteries with you. Having used both, however, between the wiring clutter in the
cockpit, intermittent cig lighters, and mediocre reception from a non hard-mounted antenna, a
panel mount is a more solid part of the plane. They're not very expensive, of course I
primarily did the install.

: Jay flies in an area where radar service is almost always available and
: therefore he could usually fly IFR DIRECT using a handheld GPS to back up
: radar vectors and to back up his onboard IFR-approved VOR/LOC equipment. It
: does not sound as if flying IFR approaches into airports served only by a
: GPS approach is a major issue for him. Therefore, a $7000 Garmin 430 would
: not provide Jay with any utility or safety advantage which he could not get
: with a $1000 or so Garmin 196 or Garmin 295.

I don't think that a Garmin 430 makes much sense for most pilots.... Especially for
Jay's mission. If it were priced more affordably, it would make good sense. I'd rather outfit
a whole stack of older equipment for a lack of single-point failure.

The money saved would pay for : a very nice Strikefinder/Stormscope or for a very nice portable
weather : datalink system, either of which would indeed provide him with a substantial : upgrade
in airplane utility and safety for either IFR or VFR flying.

Would be nice, agreed. I agree with other posts suggesting finishing the IR, and making
use out of currently functioning avionics. Of course, I'm generally a cheap b*st*rd, so of
course I'd lean that way...

Use the $$ to buy more autogas, Jay!

-Cory

--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

wrote:

I agree that a handheld is a good backup device, and I think it's a great idea to have
one, and fresh batteries with you. Having used both, however, between the wiring clutter in the
cockpit, intermittent cig lighters, and mediocre reception from a non hard-mounted antenna, a
panel mount is a more solid part of the plane. They're not very expensive, of course I
primarily did the install.

Just for reference, when I suggested that perhaps a panel-mount
GPS didn't provide much utility over a good handheld, I also
suggested an installed antenna and a power outlet.

A new cigarette lighter outlet on a sound circuit shouldn't
be any more intermittant than any other part of the electrical
system, but a small power outlet just behind wherever one
mounts the GPS is much neater.

I'm not sure what one means by "not very expensive" on the panel-mount
GPS, nor am I really arguing against it....but the two disadvantages
of the handheld (the external antenna, and the funky power) can almost
certainly be taken care of for much less than the cost of VFR
panel-mount, and the panel mount does not IMHO replace the handheld.

So if I were going to put the effort and time into an install, I'd
go for a used approach-capable IFR GPS and get the significant utility
of IFR approaches. Around here, there are plenty of airports where the
only approaches are NDB, or GPS, and IMO it *is* a significant increase
in capability.

OTOH, how much time did you spend on the install? Given a choice
between 25 hrs of install time vs. 25 hrs working on the instrument
rating, I would have to agree with those who suggested that the
latter might be a better investment!

Sydney, a Cheap ******* with another POV

Richard Kaplan wrote:

First, get your instrument rating --

Jay's problem is that they don't sell those at Oshkosh.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

wrote in message
...
one, and fresh batteries with you. Having used both, however, between the
wiring clutter in the
cockpit, intermittent cig lighters, and mediocre reception from a non
hard-mounted antenna, a
panel mount is a more solid part of the plane. They're not very
expensive, of course I
primarily did the install.

If you want, you can install fresh batteries before a trip and/or travel
with extra batteries in your flight bag and then there is no wiring clutter
at all.

I am not sure why you feel there is mediocre reception from a non
hard-mounted antenna; perhaps this was an older generation GPS or perhaps it
has something to do with your particular cockpit. My Garmin 295 works fine
without any external antenna at all. And if antenna reception is a problem
in any given airplane, just have an external GPS antenna installed with a
connector on the panel -- that is still way cheaper than a panel-mount GPS.

There is actually a key advantage to a handheld GPS being used as a regular
part of an avionics suite -- if I were to lose my electrical system while in
IMC, I would not skip a beat continuing to a landing (preferably finding
VMC, but IMC if necessary). With a handheld GPS in the flight bag one
would need to pull out the GPS, remember how to use it, initialize its
position, etc., etc.

I don't think that a Garmin 430 makes much sense for most pilots....
Especially for
Jay's mission. If it were priced more affordably, it would make good
sense. I'd rather outfit
a whole stack of older equipment for a lack of single-point failure

OK, I may agree with you there on second thought considering the plane and
the mission as I understand it. Keeping with the "trailing edge of
technology" argument, I would say that there are excellent bargains to be
had with a used Northstar M3 Approach GPS. Or for a slight upgrade, a King
KLN94 Approach GPS offers nice value as well.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:dg1Ma.67372$R73.9226@sccrnsc04...

Yeah, but if it's 10% of the price -- and half as good -- well, you get
the
idea...

In that case just use your ADF as a Stormscope... it will probably be as
accurate.

When you get into IMC, you will be *very* glad you paid for the "real thing"
and got a true sferics device.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

: If you want, you can install fresh batteries before a trip and/or travel
: with extra batteries in your flight bag and then there is no wiring clutter
: at all.

Sounds like a good idea, but it's one more thing to forget to bring. Granted, for a
real trip and not just a quick $100 hamburger, it's not that much more significant.

: I am not sure why you feel there is mediocre reception from a non
: hard-mounted antenna; perhaps this was an older generation GPS or perhaps it

I've had poor experiences with a handheld unit. Frankly, I'm amazed they work as well
as they do inside a spam can.

: There is actually a key advantage to a handheld GPS being used as a regular
: part of an avionics suite -- if I were to lose my electrical system while in
: IMC, I would not skip a beat continuing to a landing (preferably finding
: VMC, but IMC if necessary). With a handheld GPS in the flight bag one
: would need to pull out the GPS, remember how to use it, initialize its
: position, etc., etc.

True enough. Point taken.

: OK, I may agree with you there on second thought considering the plane and
: the mission as I understand it. Keeping with the "trailing edge of
: technology" argument, I would say that there are excellent bargains to be

I believe the term was, "cutting edge of yesterday's technology," but it amounts to the
same thing... I got a *full* old-school digital IFR panel for $4500 and probably about 20-40
hours of my time installing it. That's shopping around, getting equipment off ebay, etc and
consists of:

Dave Clark Isocom, KMA-20 audio panel w/ MB, KLX-135 VFR GPS/COM, KY-197 COM, KNS-80
NAV/LOC/GS/DME/RNAV w/ KNI-520 head, KN-53 NAV w/ KI-203 head, KT-76 transponder with AR-850
encoder.

That's the point I was making about the lack of sense for a Garmin 430. With that you
get one of most things (COM/ILS/GPS), but for 2x the price and no redundancy. About all it has
going for it is the IFR GPS with spiffy display, and coolness factor. Most of the installs I've
seen have been primarily because of the latter.

... but whatever floats your scope.

-Cory



--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************

: A new cigarette lighter outlet on a sound circuit shouldn't
: be any more intermittant than any other part of the electrical
: system, but a small power outlet just behind wherever one
: mounts the GPS is much neater.

I've experienced quite a few issues with the big, fat cig connector in its socket. With
a more robust power connector somewhere (Molex or DC battery disconnect type), I'd agree.

: I'm not sure what one means by "not very expensive" on the panel-mount
: GPS, nor am I really arguing against it....but the two disadvantages
: of the handheld (the external antenna, and the funky power) can almost
: certainly be taken care of for much less than the cost of VFR
: panel-mount, and the panel mount does not IMHO replace the handheld.

I got a KLX-135 VFR GPS/COM for $1200, with install kit, and antennas. Took less than 5
hours to install myself and have it signed off on. That was even tying it into the
transponder's altitude encoder to help resolve a GPS solution.

: So if I were going to put the effort and time into an install, I'd
: go for a used approach-capable IFR GPS and get the significant utility
: of IFR approaches. Around here, there are plenty of airports where the
: only approaches are NDB, or GPS, and IMO it *is* a significant increase
: in capability.

I'd heard enough horror stories about getting an IFR GPS installation approved that I
declined that route. A friend of mine did buy a KLN-90B for pretty cheap, however ($1500 IIRC).
It would be nice to have, but for my IFR training, I wanted to be proficient at old-school
stuff. The GPS will only make it easier...

: OTOH, how much time did you spend on the install? Given a choice
: between 25 hrs of install time vs. 25 hrs working on the instrument
: rating, I would have to agree with those who suggested that the
: latter might be a better investment!

This is true. I guess that's why I'm working on my IFR ticket a year later, since last
year at this time I was busy locating and installing equipment.

-Cory


--
************************************************** ***********************
* The prime directive of Linux: *
* - learn what you don't know, *
* - teach what you do. *
* (Just my 20 USm$) *
************************************************** ***********************