Hellcat Mk I - NICE ! ! !

"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...

I agree. But that would still make it somewhat illogical to remove two
squadrons worth of aircraft from the line of battle just at the moment
when they would be most needed.


I've seen nothing that suggests that was done.

"Enzo Matrix" wrote in message
...

However, earlier in the war Martlets were often used as U-boat spotters.


And later in the war as well.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. ..
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Major snippage for brevity...

HMS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based aircraft
available.
The following is provided in another post...

t appears the carriers Tracker, Pursuer and Emperor were on U-boat patrol
about 300 miles west of Normandy during the landings.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3
This reference is titled *DEFENSIVE MEASURES --
NEPTUNE OPERATION* and in its footnotes mentions Tracker, Pursuer, and
Emperor. The document says they were part of a force provided by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement from the north. That does
not support your position that there were no aircraft carriers.


I didn't say there were no carriers, I said there were no carriers listed
among the participating ships of Operation NEPTUNE. If you have information
to the contrary please present it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Neptune

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3

As stated previously, the document says they were
part of a force provided by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement
from the north. It seems rather clear that the
Wikipedia list is incomplete.



All three carriers are credited with battle honors at Normandy.


Can you cite an official source for that assertion?



As official as Wikipedia....

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/EMPEROR.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/PURSUER.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/TRACKER.htm

Battle honors are listed in the left sidebar.

--
Lynn in StLou
REMOVETHIS anti-spam measure to reply

"[4] HELLCAT IN FOREIGN SERVICE

* The Hellcat was also heavily used by the British Royal Navy's Fleet Air
Arm (FAA). A total of 252 F6F-3s were supplied beginning in March 1943. The
FAA had originally wanted to call it the "Gannet F.I (Fighter Mark I)", but
by this time they were realizing that changing the names of Yank aircraft in
their service caused more confusion than it was worth, and so the aircraft
was simply called the "Hellcat F.I".

Two squadrons were built up in 1943, being dispatched on the HMS EMPEROR for
convoy duty late in the year, where they saw no real combat. When the
EMPEROR returned to Britain in early 1944, the ship was sent north in March
as part of OPERATION TUNGSTEN, the attack on the German battleship TIRPITZ
in its protected Norwegian fjord. The Hellcats fought in wintry weather,
taking on German Bf-109Gs and FW-190As, and claiming three kills for the
loss of one of their own.

The Hellcat Is did not participate in the Normandy invasion in June 1944,
but the EMPEROR did participate in the invasion of southern France in
August. US Navy Hellcats also fought in that operation, flying from the
"jeep" carriers KASAAN BAY and TULAGI. The Hellcats performed strikes and
shot down a handful of German aircraft."

From: http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avf6f.html#m4

Brian

"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. ..
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. ..
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Major snippage for brevity...

HMS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based
aircraft
available.
The following is provided in another post...

t appears the carriers Tracker, Pursuer and Emperor were on U-boat
patrol
about 300 miles west of Normandy during the landings.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3
This reference is titled *DEFENSIVE MEASURES --
NEPTUNE OPERATION* and in its footnotes mentions Tracker, Pursuer, and
Emperor. The document says they were part of a force provided by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement from the north. That
does
not support your position that there were no aircraft carriers.


I didn't say there were no carriers, I said there were no carriers listed
among the participating ships of Operation NEPTUNE. If you have
information to the contrary please present it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Neptune

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3

As stated previously, the document says they were part of a force provided
by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement from the north. It seems
rather clear that the Wikipedia list is incomplete.



All three carriers are credited with battle honors at Normandy.


Can you cite an official source for that assertion?

As official as Wikipedia....

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/EMPEROR.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/PURSUER.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/TRACKER.htm

Battle honors are listed in the left sidebar.


I think you've lost track of the subject. The issue is not where the
carriers were on D-Day, but whether the Hellcat was used during the Normandy
invsasion. If you accept sources that indicate the carriers were nowhere
near Normandy you have to accept that their aircraft were not used during
the invasion.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. ..
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. ..
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Major snippage for brevity...

HMS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based
aircraft
available.
The following is provided in another post...

t appears the carriers Tracker, Pursuer and Emperor were on U-boat
patrol
about 300 miles west of Normandy during the landings.

http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3
This reference is titled *DEFENSIVE MEASURES --
NEPTUNE OPERATION* and in its footnotes mentions Tracker, Pursuer, and
Emperor. The document says they were part of a force provided by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement from the north. That
does
not support your position that there were no aircraft carriers.

I didn't say there were no carriers, I said there were no carriers listed
among the participating ships of Operation NEPTUNE. If you have
information to the contrary please present it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Neptune
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/...-7.htm#cn417-3

As stated previously, the document says they were part of a force provided
by CinC
Western Approaches to counter U-boat movement from the north. It seems
rather clear that the Wikipedia list is incomplete.


All three carriers are credited with battle honors at Normandy.

Can you cite an official source for that assertion?
As official as Wikipedia....

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/EMPEROR.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/PURSUER.htm

http://www.royalnavyresearcharchive....RT/TRACKER.htm

Battle honors are listed in the left sidebar.


I think you've lost track of the subject. The issue is not where the
carriers were on D-Day, but whether the Hellcat was used during the Normandy
invsasion. If you accept sources that indicate the carriers were nowhere
near Normandy you have to accept that their aircraft were not used during
the invasion.



Nope...never lost track. All I posted was
relevant to rebutting your position that there
were no carriers and hence no Hellcats.

If you want to state:

that their aircraft were not used OVER THE
BEACHHEAD during the invasion.

(BOLD inserted by me) then I can agree with you.


--
Lynn in StLou
REMOVETHIS anti-spam measure to reply

"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. net...

Nope...never lost track. All I posted was relevant to rebutting your
position that there were no carriers and hence no Hellcats.

If you want to state:

that their aircraft were not used OVER THE BEACHHEAD during the
invasion.

(BOLD inserted by me) then I can agree with you.


Well, since that IS what I said, it appears you DID lose track.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
. net...
Nope...never lost track. All I posted was relevant to rebutting your
position that there were no carriers and hence no Hellcats.

If you want to state:

that their aircraft were not used OVER THE BEACHHEAD during the
invasion.

(BOLD inserted by me) then I can agree with you.


Well, since that IS what I said, it appears you DID lose track.




No, the following is what you said:

I think you've lost track of the subject. The issue is not where the carriers were on D-Day, but whether the Hellcat was used during the Normandy invsasion.
If you accept sources that indicate the carriers
were nowhere near Normandy you have to accept that
their aircraft were not used during the invasion.

and

MS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based aircraft
available.

Show me where you stated over the beachhead prior
to this and I will concede. Adding that phrase
makes the statement correct, leaving it out makes
the statement incorrect. I do not see where you
made that distinction until I made it for you.

--
Lynn in StLou
REMOVETHIS anti-spam measure to reply

"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
et...

No, the following is what you said:

I think you've lost track of the subject. The issue is not where the
carriers were on D-Day, but whether the Hellcat was used during the
Normandy invsasion.
If you accept sources that indicate the carriers were nowhere near
Normandy you have to accept that their aircraft were not used during the
invasion.

and

MS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based aircraft
available.

Show me where you stated over the beachhead prior to this and I will
concede. Adding that phrase makes the statement correct, leaving it out
makes the statement incorrect. I do not see where you made that
distinction until I made it for you.


Review the thread, it's there.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynn in StLou" wrote in message
et...
No, the following is what you said:
I think you've lost track of the subject. The issue is not where the
carriers were on D-Day, but whether the Hellcat was used during the
Normandy invsasion.
If you accept sources that indicate the carriers were nowhere near
Normandy you have to accept that their aircraft were not used during the
invasion.

and

MS Emperor is not listed among the participating ships of Operation
NEPTUNE in any capacity. No aircraft carriers are listed. There
wouldn't seem to be a need for them with thousands of land-based aircraft
available.
Show me where you stated over the beachhead prior to this and I will
concede. Adding that phrase makes the statement correct, leaving it out
makes the statement incorrect. I do not see where you made that
distinction until I made it for you.


Review the thread, it's there.




I have...that statement is not there.

Lynn in StLou
REMOVETHIS anti-spam measure to reply