Lost Paperwork?

I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine it
is a real dog.



"Marty" wrote in message
...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means
to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing
a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs
complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

If you want REAL information about Cardinals go to the type-group web
site:

www.cardinalflyers.com

They have more facts and data on Cardinals than any other source in
the world. I have owned a Cardinal RG '75 for over a year now, and
they have already saved me several thousand dollars.
They have an excellent pre-buy guide,

- Steve


On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:16:55 -0600, "Newps"
wrote:

If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine it
is a real dog.



"Marty" wrote in message
...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means
to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing
a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs
complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

Marty

"Newps" wrote in message
...
If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp engine
it
is a real dog.



Hard to believe they put anything less than 180hp in them isn't it?
This one has 180hp with constant speed prop and I'd actually like more than
that.

"Marty" wrote in message
...

"Newps" wrote in message
...
If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp
engine
it
is a real dog.



Hard to believe they put anything less than 180hp in them isn't it?
This one has 180hp with constant speed prop and I'd actually like more
than
that.

I had a 69 with the 180 and fixed prop. The 182 I have now makes a Cardinal
look like the mistake it was.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

"Marty" wrote in message
...

"Newps" wrote in message
...
If you gotta have a Cardinal avoid the 68's. If it has the 150 hp
engine
it
is a real dog.



Hard to believe they put anything less than 180hp in them isn't it?
This one has 180hp with constant speed prop and I'd actually like more
than
that.

I had a 69 with the 180 and fixed prop. The 182 I have now makes a
Cardinal
look like the mistake it was.




Why call it a mistake Newps?
It's only my opinion but I personally don't think Cessna made a better
looking piston single. To me, and again it's only my personal opinion, all
the other Cessna piston singles look all too much alike. That's not to say
it was a bad move,sales wise they have a selection of piston singles to fit
the majority.

If I want to lift a lot of weight, there is the T-206(my personal favorite
of the Cessna guppies). If I want to just fly the family around there is the
172 or 182 but geeze they are SLOW.

The Cardinal has a high performance airfoil and needs a powerplant to match.
150hp (or even 180hp) is an insult to this aircraft, no doubt.

To each his own but I think Cessna had a diamond in the rough and for
economic (profit) reasons pitched it.
A Card with 200hp+ and CS prop would fit my flying lifestyle to a tee. Other
than that I'll be looking for a Piper.

All I want to do is go (safely) from point A to point B, at the fastest,
most reasonable cost in a 4 place bird.

Marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...


Why call it a mistake Newps?

Many, may reasons. Too low to the ground. I'm 6'1" and have to duck and
bend to get in. No good. Didn't like the seating position, reclined like a
foreign car. Headliner too low, hit the top of my headset constantly.


If I want to lift a lot of weight, there is the T-206(my personal favorite
of the Cessna guppies). If I want to just fly the family around there is
the
172 or 182 but geeze they are SLOW.

The Cardinal with the 180 hp engine is the same speed as the 172 with the
180 hp engine. Both are slower than a 182. I have no pants and big tires
on my 182 and am still faster than any 172/177. However that isn't even the
point. Takeoff performance is the point. The 182 blows them both away.
And if you want a 182 to go fast you can put on all the fairings and speed
mods and get about 150 kts TAS on the 230 HP. Much more if you go with 300
HP.



The Cardinal has a high performance airfoil

The 68 and 69 models did, later than that and they had the same basic wing
as a 172.





To each his own but I think Cessna had a diamond in the rough and for
economic (profit) reasons pitched it.

If Cessna hadn't screwed up and sold it with the 150 hp engine and that
****ty tail in 68 the 172 might be as rare as the 175 now. After they
started selling them however the die was cast and it was too late to
recover.



A Card with 200hp+ and CS prop would fit my flying lifestyle to a tee.
Other
than that I'll be looking for a Piper.


My preference is for an off road airplane. The Cardinal has much weaker
gear than the 182, especially that goofy nosewheel. You won't find low wing
Pipers in the mountains and landing on rough strips. I am trying to decide
between putting a 275 HP engine and extended baggage in my plane or
upgrading to a P206.





All I want to do is go (safely) from point A to point B, at the fastest,
most reasonable cost in a 4 place bird.

Then you want a early to mid 60's 35 Bonanza. Buddy of mine has one, very
nice and very fast. He gets about 160 kts on approx 11 gph with the IO-470.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:47:06 -0500, "Marty"
wrote:

I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

If you want a cheap plane to fly for many years - a no log plane might
be an ok deal. Just make sure to have an A&P do a very thorough
prebuy (might as well make it an annual inspectinon).

However, the real problem with no log planes presents itself when you
go to sell the plane. Potential buyers avoid 'no log' planes like the
plague. It may take several months to sell, and then you will be very
lucky to get a good price. If you buy a 'no log' plane and upgrade it
as you suggest, you will be lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar.

-Nathan

"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 23:47:06 -0500, "Marty"
wrote:
If you want a cheap plane to fly for many years - a no log plane might
be an ok deal. Just make sure to have an A&P do a very thorough
prebuy (might as well make it an annual inspectinon).

This is a possibility.

However, the real problem with no log planes presents itself when you
go to sell the plane. Potential buyers avoid 'no log' planes like the
plague. It may take several months to sell, and then you will be very
lucky to get a good price. If you buy a 'no log' plane and upgrade it
as you suggest, you will be lucky to get 40 cents on the dollar.

-Nathan

Right, and Cardinals aren't commanding big prices as it is.

"Marty" wrote in message ...
I just looked at an ad in Trade a plane.
It's a Cessna Cardinal, 1968 (fairly cheap)with no paperwork which means to
me, no logs.
Besides the obvious, what kind of hassles is there to lost logs?
If I were to purchase this plane, it would be with the intention of doing a
ground-up resto.after a structural blessing by my A&P.
Say I got it, put in new avionics, new engine, prop overhauled, ADs complied
with, fresh paint and interior. What else am I faced with? Any insurance
hassles?
I really like the Cardinals and see this as a possible opportunity since
Cessna won't make any more of them.

I think the airframe can be ok with nothing more than an expensive
search of all ADs since the begining of time, ensure they are all
done, and ensure you have a current annual, transponder, ELT, etc sign
off.

The only thing the insurance co's really are concerned about is the
hours on the engine. If you get an overhaul they'll be happy (they
really only care about SMOH time).

Be aware that there may be some pretty expensive ADs that haven't been
done. Do you know if the actual maintenance was done well (did the
widow just throw out the logs or was the last owner a rebel?).

I wouldn't worry about resale value, since that should already be
taken into account when you pay for the plane. If it reduces the value
of the plane, you'll resell it for less, but you should also pay less.
That should work out as long as you don't over pay with this in mind.

BTW: In my opinion, if you have to fly a Cessna, the fix gear Cardinal
is not a bad one to have. They do run better with a 200hp
conversion though. I flew a 150hp one for a while and I felt like I
was hitting cows in the head on take off. Some have put turbo charged
engines in them and use them as high altitude travel planes.
-Robert

-Robert