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Thermal right, land left



 
 
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  #191  
Old March 19th 04, 11:28 PM
OscarCVox
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When the PW5 was first available in the Uk another glider made by the same
manufacturer with better performance and only about 1000 pounds more was
available - the Junior. 15M, a proper looking glider, and rated by Derek Piggot
as one of the best gliders for an early solo pilot.
Why was this not considered? Because it couldnt be kit built and was 15m.

Now compare the amount of depreciation on the PW5 and the Junior. The Junior
holds its value better because it is more useable, robust, better performance
and better looking.
The PW5 has failed on one of its main criteria for the World Class- cost. Yes
it is fairly cheap to buy new, but nobody is going to be happy with 50%
depreciation over 5 years. If you compare total cost of ownership over that
period including finance costs to buy, running costs, depreciation ease of sale
etc., you will find quite a number of new gliders that are cheaper, and more
desirable.

OK sharpen your knives to disect this argument. :-)

Nigel (dont own a glider but have the choice of 12 single seaters to fly)


  #192  
Old March 20th 04, 02:08 AM
Eric Greenwell
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OscarCVox wrote:

When the PW5 was first available in the Uk another glider made by the same
manufacturer with better performance and only about 1000 pounds more was
available - the Junior. 15M, a proper looking glider, and rated by Derek Piggot
as one of the best gliders for an early solo pilot.
Why was this not considered? Because it couldnt be kit built and was 15m.



Now compare the amount of depreciation on the PW5 and the Junior. The Junior
holds its value better because it is more useable, robust, better performance
and better looking.
The PW5 has failed on one of its main criteria for the World Class- cost. Yes
it is fairly cheap to buy new, but nobody is going to be happy with 50%
depreciation over 5 years. If you compare total cost of ownership over that
period including finance costs to buy, running costs, depreciation ease of sale
etc., you will find quite a number of new gliders that are cheaper, and more
desirable.

OK sharpen your knives to disect this argument. :-)


The committees didn't have depreciation data on a PW5 in the mid-80s,
when this process was started.

There was considerable interest in the idea at the time, with 20+
initial entrants. It is easy to suggest changes after the experiment is
carried out, hard to design the next one to appeal to people who will be
in the sport 10 or 15 years from now.


--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

  #193  
Old March 20th 04, 03:07 AM
Mark James Boyd
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In article ,
Robert Ehrlich wrote:
Eric Greenwell wrote:

Jon Meyer wrote:

Are you therefore saying that the world class must
have less than 15m span just so that it cannot be construed
as being equivalent to one of the existing classes?


No, I'm saying it must be smaller to be cheaper. Bigger costs money.

I think that such a suggestion is completely contrary
to the aims of the world class, which are in my opinion,
very good.


Here was an important goal: "substantially lower costs than then-current
new gliders". It's the first one on the list in the history section of
the World Class Soaring Association (www.wcsa.org/history.htm).


At that time the LAK-12 was still in production and met the goal:
substantially lower costs than then-current new gliders". Although
size is certainly a factor of the price, it is not the main one.


The WC requirement that the glider have construction plans
public and open to anyone for building seemed like a good way
to ensure the manufacturer wouldn't "gouge", but this seems to
have backfired. I don't think this requirement should be
put forth in 2009. Perhaps this will encourage more entries...
Perhaps make the plans and such public and buildable by
anyone, but have no requirement that it is easy to build...
Thus allowing the Sparrowhawk and others to compete...

--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA
  #194  
Old March 20th 04, 04:16 AM
Chris OCallaghan
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It is one of those sad truths that the very, very few people who are
willing to stand up and do something for the good of the rest of us
will win our unending ridicule. But lets be honest, we second guessers
count for little to nothing. Teapot tempests, all of us. If you don't
like the PW-5 or the World Class, unglue your bottom from the chair in
front of the ras and go create a new World Class. Of course, you'll
find it difficult, unpleasant, and posture yourself for unending
ridicule. And you may even discover why the PW-5 was selected. But I
suppose most of us prefer to be ridiculous in spirit than ridiculed in
fact.
  #195  
Old March 20th 04, 04:18 AM
Chris OCallaghan
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PS, signing off for the season... there's sky out there to sculpt.
  #196  
Old April 1st 04, 11:43 PM
OscarCVox
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If you don't
like the PW-5 or the World Class, unglue your bottom from the chair in
front of the ras and go create a new World Class. Of course, you'll
find it difficult, unpleasant, and posture yourself for unending
ridicule. And you may even discover why the PW-5 was selected. But I
suppose most of us prefer to be ridiculous in spirit than ridiculed in
fact.


Dont need to. The club class is doing all that the World class was supposed to
and is oversubscribed in competitions all over the world - except the USA, Why
dont you follow the same format and forget the world class as a good idea that
went wrong and embrace the club class like everybody else.

I know! It hasnt been invented by the good old usa so it cant be any good. Why
reinvent the wheel with your sport class?
 




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