AS 33

At 22:59 06 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


As for the ASW-28, standard is dead, and Schleicher never made a
seriously competitive Standard class glider. Although
=
I thought my ASW-24 was on par with a Discus in the run, maybe slightly
bet=
ter, I thought it did not climb as well, but it had a forward hinged
canopy=
instead of the silly side hinged.


Hmmn Std Class dead? - 2nd largest class by number of entries at the
Worlds, after Club Class. Seem to remember the ASW 19 winning one or
two comps before the LS4 came along, and its won 3 World Champs.

On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 8:26:25 AM UTC+2, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

I agree 100%. What is not said here is that what great and helpful people the Jonkers are.

I don't have one of their planes; but when making the JS-1 for Condor Simulator, they have been really responsive to my questions.

Now its done, I asked for JS-3 data - they sent me the 3D nodel from their CAD system!

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.[/QUOTE



.... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of course... ;-)

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:43:07 AM UTC-7, Brett wrote:
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.[/QUOTE



... and of course the JS1's hold the current titles in both 18m and
Open classes of the WGC. With a bit of help from their pilots of
course... ;-)




--
Brett

Since this thread is about the AS-33, I wish Schleicher would share design details. All the designers that were the lead designers of the gliders we know are not with Schleicher any more. Who are the designers? Schleicher was very involved with the MU-31, wonder why they choose the wing position they did? The V3 has a max wing loading of 11.3 pound and was designed as a low energy glider, the offerings from AS and JS offer less wing area and and up to a pound more wing loading. The next few years should be interesting to see which design philosophy the market embraces.

On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great gliders. Jonkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced a handful of gliders compared to the other two listed.

The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m ship.
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class are
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.

I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against 28m
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries! They
have changed the nature of open class.

Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m championship.
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.

Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of the
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at school..

What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they have
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they have
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype to
production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
=20
Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.
Jo=
nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a
han=
dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
=20
The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
ship.=
=20
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
are=20
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
=20
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
28m=20
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
They=20
have changed the nature of open class.
=20
Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
championship.=20
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
=20
Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
the=20
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
school=
..
=20
What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
have=20
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
have=20
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
to=20
production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
f=
ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
Hoping=
SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
=
ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 12:15:05 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
At 16:18 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 11:26:25 PM UTC-7, Ian wrote:
On 07/07/2018 00:59, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
=20
Schleicher and Schempp have a long history of making great
gliders.
Jo=
nkers has started that tradition too, however they have only produced
a
han=
dful of gliders compared to the other two listed.
=20
The Jonkers started out with the aim of building a world class 18m
ship.=
=20
In the upcoming world championships 17 out of 46 in the 18m class
are=20
Jonkers so I guess they have achieved that.
=20
I would have thought that competing with a 21m glider against
28m=20
gliders would be like taking a knife to gun fight. But 17 out of 32=20
entries in open class are JS1c's. That's over 50% of the entries!
They=20
have changed the nature of open class.
=20
Then there are 5 out of 37 JS3's in the just started 15m
championship.=20
They were placed 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 12th yesterday.
=20
Of course there are no Jonkers gliders in the club class! Most of
the=20
club class fleet were built when the Jonker brothers were still at
school=
..
=20
What is surprising about their achievement, is not that they
have=20
designed and built world competitive gliders, not that they are=20
competitive in 3 different classes. But the speed with which they
have=20
managed to progress from drawing board (computer) to prototype
to=20
production and certification.

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it
to
f=
ull production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21.
Hoping=
SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their
amazing
=
ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

You could have bought an Antares 23......


No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to get the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?

On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 5:18:30 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

Jonkers have saved the open class. Too bad the Quintus didn't make it to full production, I understand it handles MUCH better than a JS-c-21. Hoping SH makes a Nimbus 5 or Quintus 2 or AS makes a follow on to their amazing ASW-22. I loved the open class, in the air, not so much on the ground.

The handling of the JS1c 21m is very nice indeed - not much different off tow from the original 18m version. I had one for 4 years and never had the slightest problem with it. The only (and now well known) issue is that the fully ballasted wing loading of about 60 kg/m2 requires that the pilot ensures that the aerotow speed is adequate.

At 19:37 09 July 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:


No, if Lange couldn't work with SH to get them the data they needed to
get
the quintus certified, they why would they work with me any better?


Incorrect,
S-H has had all data from Lange required to certify the Quintus for many
years now. Lange actually re-did the certification documentation multiple
times in order to accommodate for more weight of non-loading parts.

"Wer lesen kann ist klar im vorteil"

https://www.lange-aviation.com/en/pr...dukte/quintus/

..And if you like the Q, then you really ought to try the A23..