Refuting blackbird folklore

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
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"The Enlightenment" wrote in message
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(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message
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(robert arndt) wrote in message
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Chad Irby wrote in message
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(robert arndt) wrote:


Geeze, you probably think the integrated circuit and microprocessor
were both derived from Nazi research, huh? What is it with this
Pavlovian reaction you demonstrate to all things (allegedly) Germanic?


It's quite possible that German research in this area influenced or
inspired later western work.


Hardly since the Germans didnt actually do any work in this area.
The Germans's fell far behind the allies in terms of electronics
and electronic warfare as the war progressed.

The transistor came out of work done at Bell Labs that began in
1939 by Russel Ohl and the IC was invented at Texa Instruments
by Jack Kilby.


A marker on the sidewalk in Palo Alto, Ca.just north of El Camino
on San Antonio Road notes that being the site where Dr. Shokley(sp)
and associates invented the transistor. A dozen or so blocks north on
San Antonio at Charleston there is a building with a monument at the
door noting that "At this site Dr Robert Noyce and associates at
Fairchild invented the first practical application of the integrated
circuit." That would have been the Planar Process and the whole
Silicon Valley evolved from that.

JK

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
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(robert arndt) wrote in message
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Chad Irby wrote in message
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(robert arndt) wrote:


Geeze, you probably think the integrated circuit and
microprocessor
were both derived from Nazi research, huh? What is it with this
Pavlovian reaction you demonstrate to all things (allegedly)
Germanic?


It's quite possible that German research in this area influenced
or
inspired later western work.


Hardly since the Germans didnt actually do any work in this area.
The Germans's fell far behind the allies in terms of electronics
and electronic warfare as the war progressed.

They fell behined in the high frequency field. In other areas they
reamained on par.


The transistor came out of work done at Bell Labs that began in
1939 by Russel Ohl and the IC was invented at Texa Instruments
by Jack Kilby.

Noyce (of intel fame) invented it simultaneously.


The Tranistor is credited to William Schokley. An Englishman who
received the Noble prize leading the team that developed it. I admire
Schokely's political views incidently.


The Germans were using a sort of rubberised ironball for u-boat
snorkels and conning towers. Screens were also carried on board
u-boats that could be errected around the conning tower. Finaly
the
Go 229 was to recieve a sort of carbon black based 3-ply skin that
had
RAM properties and the aircraft showed use of re enterant
structures.

Surely opperation paperclip must have made use of some of this or
been
aware of German approaches to the issue.


Hardly , the german countermeasures were almost entirely ineffective
since they were working on the assumption that allied radars
were operating in the metre band rather than the centimetric
radar that was actually being used.

Ugh! This misapprehension lasted for less than 1 year and ended by
1943.

The German had succesfully used simple radar as early as 1935 to
detect ships up to 1km away. They however had to use minature valves
that had outputs limited to a watt at most.

Either way they were aware of what was being used against them and
succesfully put into service countermeaures such as warning devices
and homing devices.



German pre war doctrine held that radar or radio emisions would
reveal
one to the enemy and empphsised passive techniques and this may
have
influenced their neglect at maintaining their lead in radar.

It has to be rememberd that Randle and Boots magnetron was
developed
because they wanted a cheap radar emiter for the detector and
direction finder they were developing.


That would be Randall and Boot who developed the cavity
magnetron at Birmingham University in 1940.

Because they couldn't afford the klystrons that were around at the
time for their radia direction finding work.


The Germans also developed active radar systems and Telefunken
had been working on just such a device as early as 1935 but had
been unable to get even close to the efficiencies and power levels
that Randall and Boot achieved.

Yep, the power levels were around 50W but apparently stable. To low
to give a radar more than 1km range.

The Japanese appear to have beaten Randall and Boot but the value of
their device was not recognised.


If they had of been given a bigger budget they may not have
stumbelled
upon it.

As far as Germans inventing the integrated circuit goes? Well
that
never happened but it might have because an ex Luftwaffe
technician
may actualy have invented a transistor. It's quite a sad story
actualy:

http://home.t-online.de/home/Benduhn/summary.htm

What it describes is interesting but its not a transistor but a cold
cathode
tube and that was first demonstrated by Philo Taylor Farnsworth II
in 1934


Good try:

From you own link.
"The performance of this new type of tube depends upon the emission of
secondary electrons from two cathodes which are bombarded with
high-velocity primary electrons. "

Clearly your cold cathod tube requirs a high tension power supply.


Its entirly possible that your ex Luftwaffe technician was aware if
it since
an article in Radio by Arthur Halloran described it in detail in the
issue published in October 1934.

http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/multipact.htm

Denk would have been a 18 year old kid.


Or he may have just come across it himself as claimed: To make a
transistor
1 Dope Germanium or Silicon lightly as P type material. This is the
base of the transistor.
2 Press 2 tungsten pins into the above base and pass a current. This
will form n-type regions at the point contacts.

That is a pont contact tranistor and it was the first type to enter
production. Making selenium rectifiers and crystal radio 'cats
whisker' rectifiers relied on a similar process at the time.




The claim that the first tubeless radio was built in 1948 is so
wrong its farcical. The crystal set was common in the 1920's.

You're spliting hairs again. Why are you compelled to do that?

Clearly the claim is that he developed some sort of amplification that
did not require heated cathodes or valves.

It's not inconceivable that he stumbelled across some sort of solid
state effect perhaps due to the odd metals used in valves of the time
and followed up on it.

His desire to retain the benefit for his people entirely is
understandable if misguided. The lot of a Sudeten German (Actualy
Austrian prior to that Bavarian) was miserable before and after the
War.

******

You make a mistake when you call me pro-German.

I have had similar claims in realation to me being pro-serbian, pro
ukranian, pro english and pro-russian. I for instance found myself
disgusted by the British act of supporting the Turks against Russians
who were trying to defend Bulgaria during the Crimean war.

British participation in WW1 was an act of collosal stupididy and WW2
doubled that. If German involvement on behalf of Austria in WW1 was
stupid then Bristish Involvement was mendanciouly stupid as the people
of the UK were manouvered into war by upper class ****s pumping out
lies and faked atrocity rumors.

Sadly things in the UK haven't changed and the English in particular
are suffering for it.

As far as Germans inventing the integrated circuit goes? Well that
never happened but it might have because an ex Luftwaffe technician
may actualy have invented a transistor. It's quite a sad story
actualy:

http://home.t-online.de/home/Benduhn/summary.htm

What it describes is interesting but its not a transistor but a cold cathode
tube and that was first demonstrated by Philo Taylor Farnsworth II in 1934

No, the Germans didn't invent the transistor but they did have the
Magnetophon in WW2:

http://www.acmi.net.au/AIC/MULLIN.html

The Germans also had portable tube radios like the Nora K 62:

http://www.rolaa.de/sehensw/radio/bi...fer/nora_e.htm

Rob