Weight & Balance Question

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point. The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry

In a previous article, "Harry Gordon" said:
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name of
having fun.

Somebody tell Harry Gordon that somebody has forged a posting in his name.

If I *were* to contemplate doing such a thing as flying overweight, I sure
as hell wouldn't put my own name on a public admission that I'd
contemplated it ahead of time. If something untoward happens, even if it
were unrelated to the weight and balance or fuel, and the FAA or NTSB
found this post, you could bet that you'll never fly again.


--
"The magic of usenet has never been its technology; and, only in part, its
reach. Its magic -- its power -- is based on the very real human connections
that form 'round its threads of conversation... the relationships that are
kindled, flamed and, on occasion, extinguished and mourned." -deCadmus

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for some
alternative suggestions.

There are no alternatives to the legal answer.

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane.

This isn't a problem. If it is flying tomorrow before you fly, you phone
the FBO ahead of time and ask them to ensure that the plane is not
refuelled.
If it isn't flown before you fly you are left with 3 choices.
1. Pay for the excess gas to be siphoned out,
2. Fly it solo until you have burned off the gas.
3. Take the passengers one at a time

What you don't do is fly it 90lb overweight. There are a lot of reasons
for that -
It is illegal - not only will you be penalised if you are caught, if you
crash on takeoff you won't even be insured,
You don't know the characteristics of the aircraft at that loading -
stall speed, stall characteristics, your yellow, green and white arcs no
longer give accurate information, and if you have a problem and have to
land soon after takeoff you will be landing overweight which can damage
the aircraft.

In short, it is not one of your better ideas



Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Thank you, both Paul and Tony. Even when I pressed the "enter" key I was
kicking myself for even asking. There is no way that I would seriously
consider much less actually fly overweight. I guess I was just grasping at
some straws given the outstanding suggestions to other questions I have
gleaned from this newsgroup.

Sorry to waste your time and emotions :-). No further responses are needed.
I will NOT take that flight being overweight. FOR THE RECORD: I AM NOT
FLYING OVERWEIGHT!!!! (Is that good enough, Paul?)

Incidentally, I did a GOOGLE search on this and other newsgroups on this
same subject, and found almost the same question with numerous different
answers/suggestions/ideas. So, I'm not breaking any new ground for
discussion with this. BTW, the bottom line was "dump some fuel".

Thanks again.

Harry

Someone once said that the only dumb question was the one not asked.
Generally, if one person has a question, someone else also has the same
question but is "afraid" to ask it. Well, perhaps someone out there in
"flying land" who reads this newsgroup is considering flying overweight.
Perhaps you should consider the answers I got. Just an after-thought.

Safe flying, everyone.

Harry

89 pounds overweight? Sounds like this one...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X05676&key=1

Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point. The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry

when you least expect it.. the extra pounds will come up and bite you..

any other day.. and the extra weight would not have even been noticed..

when ever flying beyond the recommendations of the POH, you are now a Test
Pilot, without the knowledge of what being a test pilot means, nor the
training to safely explore.. where man has gone before.. but not documented
it.

One interesting phase of "test pilot" is "envelope expansion"

BT

"Mateo" wrote in message
...
89 pounds overweight? Sounds like this one...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X05676&key=1

Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for
some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a
C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point.
The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the
max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I don't
want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be
full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be
concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking because
I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at
the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the name
of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry

And believe me, I "ain't" no test pilot! - I'm doing good just to be a new
PP :-).

Harry

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:CnLGb.41368$m83.16083@fed1read01...
when you least expect it.. the extra pounds will come up and bite you..

any other day.. and the extra weight would not have even been noticed..

when ever flying beyond the recommendations of the POH, you are now a Test
Pilot, without the knowledge of what being a test pilot means, nor the
training to safely explore.. where man has gone before.. but not
documented
it.

One interesting phase of "test pilot" is "envelope expansion"

BT

"Mateo" wrote in message
...
89 pounds overweight? Sounds like this one...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...08X05676&key=1

Harry Gordon wrote:

I have a question that I know the legal answer for but am looking for
some
alternative suggestions.

Tomorrow, I want to take my daughter and son-in-law on a flight in a
C172M.
We will be flying to an airport almost 50 NM from our departure point.
The
problem is this: with a full fuel load, we will be 89 pounds over the
max
(2300 lbs). The CG is no problem. The only issue is the weight. I
don't
want
to leave one of them behind, and I certainly don't want to leave
myself
behind :-))).

I am hoping that the plane wasn't refilled after it's last flight but
I
won't know until I go to the airport to get the plane. Should it be
full
and I don't have the needed 15 gals of fuel dumped, should I be
concerned
about being 90 lbs over?

Please be nice in your answers. I feel like an idiot even asking
because
I
am concerned and if it wasn't for the fact they are visiting us for
Christmas, I would take one at a time on two separate trips!!! And at
the
same time, I'm not in a hurry to get us hurt (or worse) just in the
name
of
having fun.

Thanks.

Harry

Gene,

You're absolutely correct. I wasn't worried about the fuel being burned
during the flight. What my concern was the initial take-off weight. I knew
that the only way of getting rid of the extra weight was to lessen the fuel
load, which is what you're saying.

I did some checking and found out the 172 I will be flying was flown for
several hours yesterday, was not scheduled to be flown today, and I am the
only one with it tomorrow. I am hoping they did not fill the tanks when they
returned. If they did or if there is still too much fuel (weight), I am
going to scrap the flight. I'm not going to worry about trying to get some
fuel drained. Given the background for this flight, I don't think it would
be worth the hassle.

This is the first time that I have ever had to fly when W&B became an issue.
Thanks for your comments, they pretty much cover my thought processes during
my initial evaluation of the situation.

Harry

The easy answer to this one is:

You don't have to take off over gross because you are only going to
burn about 10 gals of fuel (in 55 miles) plus, oh, say, another 10....
that's about 120 pounds of fuel. What you *DON'T* have to carry is
about another 16 gals of fuel or about 96 pounds! So...... you'll be
legal with respect to gross and CG, if you don't take what you don't
need.

PS....

If you were a 6'-2" flight instructor flying any of the training
aircraft with long range tanks out of an FBO that automatically tops
off the A/C, you'd know the drill.......... just say, "NO."

Safe flying, everyone.

I have a wonderful device called "Super Siphon". Stick the end in the
tank, juggle it, and fuel starts flowing out.

I've used this a *lot*, and keep it in the trunk of my car.