license woes

Hi,

I wonder if I can borrow your wisdom here. I tried to convert a foreign
private pilot license to a US one, and hit a wall.

On 9/5, I applied for a conversion of Japanese glider license to a
US one at San Jose FSDO. On the application form, I disclosed that
I had a US ASEL license, and even verbally pointed it out when asked.
Then, they did issue me a US glider license. I brought it back home
happily, joined a flight club and did BFR on 9/9, and flew every
weekend since then.
However, on 9/25, they sent me a letter saying that they issued me
the license by mistake. According to them, they shouldn't have issued
the license because I have a US private pilot ASEL license
(14 CFR 61.75(b)(3)).

Not only I cannot fly, I had to leave the club because it required at
least private pilot license to be a member of.

Here is the law.

§ 61.75 Private pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign
pilot license.
(b) Certificate issued. A U.S. private pilot certificate that is
issued under this section shall specify the person's foreign license
number and country of issuance. A person who holds a current
foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention

on International Civil Aviation may be issued a private pilot
certificate based on the foreign pilot license without any further
showing of proficiency, provided the applicant:
(3) Does not currently hold a U.S. pilot certificate;

Here are the licenses I have, and year I obtained them.

1989 Private Pilot glider (Japan)
1992 Private Pilot ASEL (US)
1992 CFI rating on glider (Japan)
1992 Private Pilot ASEL (Japan)

To summarize the discussion with FAA officers, I have a few options.

1) Surrender the US ASEL license, and FAA will immediately
issue me a US glider private license because 61.75(b)(3) no longer
applies. This idea was actually suggested by multiple FAA officers,

so I'm sure this works. Not too attractive, though.

2) Invent a time machine, go back to 8/13/1992 12:00am, drive up to
a small motel near Jefferson County airport in Colorado, and slip in
the following note under the door of the room I was staying.

Dear Gen,

Apply for the conversion of your Japanese glider license before
you take ASEL checkride tomorrow. It's free, and there is no
chance it is denied. This will save you a lot of hassle in your
future.

Truly yours,

Then, I will have both US glider license (based on Japanese one)
and US ASEL license now. FAA will not revoke the glider license
even after I obtain US ASEL. The order of application makes
difference.
I wish I applied, but I never thought having a US license becomes
disadvantage..

3) Take a checkride, and add glider rating on my existing US private
pilot license. Though this is the cleanest option, this is the most
expensive option. It costs more than $1000 (exam fee, aircraft
rental, tow fee, etc.) on top of $500 I already spent on BFR of the
mistakenly issued license. I wish they didn't issue me the license
in the first place.

So, my questions a

- Does anyone know the background 14 CFR 61.75(b)(3) was
established for? (I asked FAA officers, but nobody knew.)
- What is the appropriate process to appeal for an exception?
- Any other idea to get a glider license issued?

Thanks,
-Gen

gen wrote:
...part 61.75 woes...

alternatively, 4) get your commercial glider; you already
have a private certificate issued under part 61 (your ASEL),
and you probably have all the required hours; it will probably
end up costing you the same as getting a private glider but
you'll get something extra...

--Sylvain

That would be my suggestion..
let them take the US glider back.. keep your US ASEL Pvt,
Prepare for and take a Pvt or Commercial level Glider Check ride as an
add-on to your US Pvt ASEL
Ask the club for a "stay" (a suspended membership) while you sort through
the FAA tape.

BT

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
gen wrote:
...part 61.75 woes...

alternatively, 4) get your commercial glider; you already
have a private certificate issued under part 61 (your ASEL),
and you probably have all the required hours; it will probably
end up costing you the same as getting a private glider but
you'll get something extra...

--Sylvain

Yes, that's one of options. However, that doens't solve the root cause
here.

Note that,
- If I surrender ASEL, they will issue me a glider license without any
kind of exam.
- If I had applied for a glider license *before* I took ASEL (which I
could), they
coexist.

Then, why they don't issue me a glider license now? I do not understand
why
I have to spend $1000 here.

-Gen

BT wrote:
That would be my suggestion..
let them take the US glider back.. keep your US ASEL Pvt,
Prepare for and take a Pvt or Commercial level Glider Check ride as an
add-on to your US Pvt ASEL
Ask the club for a "stay" (a suspended membership) while you sort through
the FAA tape.

BT

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
gen wrote:
...part 61.75 woes...

alternatively, 4) get your commercial glider; you already
have a private certificate issued under part 61 (your ASEL),
and you probably have all the required hours; it will probably
end up costing you the same as getting a private glider but
you'll get something extra...

--Sylvain

why
I have to spend $1000 here.

BEcause you want to fly and keep both your US ASEL and Glider rating?
BT

Thanks for reply, but you are missing my point..

IMHO, a pilot license should be awarded solely based on the flight
proficiency, aeronautical knowledge, and flight experience.
Surrendering ASEL clearly does not affect my flight proficiency,
aeronautical knowledge, and flight experience, but they will issue me a
glider license if I do so. Then, I should have a glider license now. Am
I wrong?


BT wrote:
why
I have to spend $1000 here.

BEcause you want to fly and keep both your US ASEL and Glider rating?
BT

gen wrote:

Note that,
- If I surrender ASEL, they will issue me a glider license without any
kind of exam.

If I understand your situation correctly you have indeed the option
of surrendering your FAA ASEL and then apply for both ASEL and Glider
certificates under 61.75 without having to pass any exam (since you
have both ASEL and Glider Japanese licenses);

However, keep in mind that things have become a lot more complicated
since 9/11 and the days of just walking in the local FSDO unannounced
with your logbook, license and 8710-1 in hand are over; and it will
take a while to get through the process (and it will involve both FAA
and Japanese equivalent since they have to validate your credentials)...
it might end up being easier/faster (and may be even cheaper) to just
take the commercial glider exam, hence my suggestion;

- If I had applied for a glider license *before* I took ASEL (which I
could), they coexist.

that's what I did lucky me, and the FAA has indeed no problem with
it... If this is the first odd thing you noticed in the FARs, you
have plenty more fun to look forward to...

--Sylvain

Sylvain wrote:
If I understand your situation correctly you have indeed the option
of surrendering your FAA ASEL and then apply for both ASEL and Glider
certificates under 61.75 without having to pass any exam (since you
have both ASEL and Glider Japanese licenses);

Yes, that idea poped up during discussions with FAA officers. Thanks
for pointing it out. This might be indeed the option I take, if I will
have the same privilege. I'm looking into minor details now.

But again, my point is that a pilot license should be awarded solely
based on the flight
proficiency, aeronautical knowledge, and flight experience. If there is
no good reason, I'd even dare to say that 61.75(b)(3) is
discriminative..

-Gen


However, keep in mind that things have become a lot more complicated
since 9/11 and the days of just walking in the local FSDO unannounced
with your logbook, license and 8710-1 in hand are over; and it will
take a while to get through the process (and it will involve both FAA
and Japanese equivalent since they have to validate your credentials)...
it might end up being easier/faster (and may be even cheaper) to just
take the commercial glider exam, hence my suggestion;

- If I had applied for a glider license *before* I took ASEL (which I
could), they coexist.

that's what I did lucky me, and the FAA has indeed no problem with
it... If this is the first odd thing you noticed in the FARs, you
have plenty more fun to look forward to...

--Sylvain

"gen" wrote in message
oups.com...
IMHO, a pilot license should be awarded solely based on the flight
proficiency, aeronautical knowledge, and flight experience.
Surrendering ASEL clearly does not affect my flight proficiency,
aeronautical knowledge, and flight experience, but they will issue me a
glider license if I do so. Then, I should have a glider license now. Am
I wrong?

From what you've written, it appears as though you expect a government
bureaucracy to behave in an efficient, rational manner.

What are you smoking?

Peter Duniho wrote:

"gen" wrote in message
IMHO, a pilot license should be awarded solely based on the flight
From what you've written, it appears as though you expect a government
bureaucracy to behave in an efficient, rational manner.

To be fair, the FAA is a lot more accommodating and helpful (and
efficient and rational) than any of the other four civil aviation
authorities with which I have dealt in the past (Irish, British,
Swiss and French -- guess which is the worst by a long shot?)

As tricky and slightly absurd as Gen's situation may appear to be,
he (or she?) has at least two pretty good options available to
solve the problem...

--Sylvain